Caseless rounds

Daehanminkuk

Daehanminkuk

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Seodaemun-gu, Seoul, ROK
I have a bunch of caseless rounds from the 1970s in .22, but I have NEVER seen the gun that fires them around ever...

I think the idea of a caseless cartridge is pretty interesting but as far I have been told those firearms had a tendency to cook off rounds unexpectedly.. this true?

does anyone know more about these .22s? Just curious? :confused::sniper:
 
Heckler & Koch did up a prototype ..IIRC called a G11 that used caseless ammo in sub 5 mm caliber with ballistics close to the .223/5.56 mm military round back in the late 1970's. "Guns & Ammo" magazine did up a feature article on the rifle and ammo/ bullets back then.
 
I heard of the G11 but I didn't know there were consumer rifles made to shoot caseless ammo as well.

From wikipedia on the Daisy V/L:
Daisy was the first company to introduce a production caseless ammunition and rifle, the V/L Rifle, in 1968. The V/L ammunition consisted of a .22 caliber bullet with a small disk of propellant on the back, and no primer. The rifle resembled a typical spring-air rifle, but the hot, high pressure air served not only as a power source but also to ignite the propellant on the back of the V/L cartridge. The V/L guns and ammunition were discontinued in 1969 after the BATF ruled that they constituted a firearm, and Daisy, which was not licensed to manufacture firearms, decided to discontinue manufacture rather than become a firearms manufacturer. About 23,000 of the rifles were made before production ceased.
 
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I have seen more FG42s in real life than I have caseless rifles. That says a lot.

The Daisy V/L came out in the 70's, and Voere had a caseless rifle with electronic ignition and a 9v battery in the stock that was on the market in the early 90's. The Voere gun basically duplicated .233 ballistics.
 
BattleRife said:
I have seen more FG42s in real life than I have caseless rifles. That says a lot.

The Daisy V/L came out in the 70's, and Voere had a caseless rifle with electronic ignition and a 9v battery in the stock that was on the market in the early 90's. The Voere gun basically duplicated .233 ballistics.
Click to expand...

oh that is very interesting ^^

I am getting ideas now.
I see an experiment.... :) :eek::dancingbanana:
anyone have the nerve to build one .. of course go through the proper channels of course with the CFC through.
 
Kinda makes me wonder if a BP/light oil slurry would ignite in a standard break open (piston powered) pellet gun if you fill the cavity at the back of the pellet with that stuff. I know for a fact that light oil itself ignites from the pressure and heat that results, I could see a small but noticeable muzzle flash when I fired mine with an oily bore. :cool::evil::stirthepot2:
Daehanminkuk said:
oh that is very interesting ^^

I am getting ideas now.
I see an experiment.... :) :eek::dancingbanana:
anyone have the nerve to build one .. of course go through the proper channels of course with the CFC through.
Click to expand...
 
Bought one at the Hudson Bay store way back. I believe the proper name was " Daisey / Heddon"
It did in fact use compression to provide ignition.
Shot reasonably well, but the ammo was its weakness.
Was not terribly durable, as the rounds had to be kept in the plastic case they came in to prevent damage which could result in the propellant coming off. Moisture was also an issue.
Not the kind of stuff you shove into your jeans pocket and go shootin gophers.
Expensive and hard to find ammo hastened its demise.
 
RobSmith said:
Kinda makes me wonder if a BP/light oil slurry would ignite in a standard break open (piston powered) pellet gun if you fill the cavity at the back of the pellet with that stuff. I know for a fact that light oil itself ignites from the pressure and heat that results, I could see a small but noticeable muzzle flash when I fired mine with an oily bore. :cool::evil::stirthepot2:
Click to expand...

yes, compression will create heat. This is what Diesel engines use to run, compression. So, now ... hmm it makes me very curious as to what would happen if I stuck a very small amount of pistol powder behind a .22 pellet.... and fired that ... :cool:
very curious as to the results...
 
This is what I posted over at the Canadian Airgun forum.
http://www.airgunforum.ca/forum/viewtopic.php?t=22227&highlight=
There are pictures by someone else of my gun that you can click on.


The ammo that I have is marked as Made in Canada.
I first learned of the system many years ago when I came across a box of 100 at some gunstore in the USA. I bought the box for my cartridge collection, never planning on actually firing it.
Much later, I noticed an ad from Gun Parts Corp in the USA for ammo for $17 per 1000 pack.
Soon after, I saw an ad in Can. Access to Firearms for a gun for $75. It was cheap because the sear was broken and the seller had no ammo. I quickly phoned GPC to see if they still had the ammo, they did, so I bought a bunch then did the deal for the gun.
I was able to make a new sear by copying the two half parts the seller sent.

It is not really accurate, and as the ammo is about 40 years old now, I do get the occasional misfire.
Using the gun strictly as an air-rifle is a bit pointless, as it has a retardedly low velocity. I doubt it could shoot through a piece of toast. But with the VL ammo, it goes about 1100 fps. The rated speed is supposed to be 1150, so it is not to far off the quoted number.

I tend to like the goofy, unusual types of technology, so I also have a HW35 Barakuda with the either injection thing. I'm trying to restore that one as some of the tiny screws are missing.
 
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