Cases crumpling when I crimp. HELP.

[Polish-Jack]

Trying to reload some 7.62x54R for the first time and I am having a problem. I loaded up 50 rounds with a medium power load from the lyman's reloading book. Took the newly minted rounds to the range, load up five in the 91/30 and take the first shot. BANG! YAY! It worked and I have all my fingers. I eject the now empty brass and see that the all the bullets from the remaining four rounds have fallen out of the brass.

It turns out that I can twist out the bullet from the casing with out straining myself, so I go back home and try a harder crimp. I take out the seating part of the die and give the die quarter turn more into the press. I put in one of the remaining 45 rounds in to the press and I feel something give. I pull out the round and find that the shoulder has collapsed. I waste ten more cases trying to find the sweet spot between crumpling and max crimp but I feel no difference in the crimp when I try to pry the bullet out.

So I get an idea. I crimp a case with out a bullet. Yep. No problems. The crimp die works. I back out the die so there is no more crimp and replace to seater part so I can force a bullet into the now crimped brass. It works. No damage to the case and no shaved off copper jacket. I give the bullet a tug and out it comes. Might as well not have crimped the case at all.

I then notice that these bullets do not have a cannelure like my 9mm or .45 bullets do.

Do I need cannelured bullets in order to crimp? Am I stuck with feeding these rounds in one at a time? Is lead soft enough to not need a cannelure when it is not jacketed?

 

[Levi Garrett]

poss fodded, too much lube most likely, never lube the shoulder eh.
May want to clean the dies.
After reading all of that , check bullet , might be .308, req .311/312

 

[wobbles99]

This may be a dumb question but does the bullet you are using have a cannelure? Crimping without one would cause this issue.

If not then I'd recomend buying a factory crimp die fro Lee. It uses a collet to crimp and doesn't buckle the case. It'll also crimp bullets without cannelures.

 

[Bobby Ironsights]

I have a mosin, and I had the same problem because I was using the .308 bullets that someone told me would work "just fine" in the .311 bore. They loaded fine the first time on virgin brass, but after I shot them, not so much.

If you switch over to proper .311 bullets (like for the lee enfield) I think your problem will disappear, and you won't need to "crimp". It solved my problems.

Gunshop "experts" sometimes have alot in common with the internet "experts". 3 thousandths of an inch matters.

 

[ben hunchak]

You shouldn't need to crimp these rounds, case neck tension alone should keep bullets from moving and your cases will last longer. Determine relationship between your expander button size and the size of the bullets you are using, button should expand case to .309" or so, and your .311" bullets can't help but fit properly. In some guns, your bore may be larger and require a wider bullet similar to alot of .303s, in which case cast bullets can be sized to match larger bore.

 

[glang1]

When crimping with a standard seating die, the bullets must have a cannelure! Seat the bullet until about 1/32" of the cannelure is still exposed. If you have the instructions for your dies, turn your die in as required to make the roll crimp. Less is better than too much, or you will buckle the shoulders of your cases. Better option is to get a Lee Factory crimp die. It can be used with any kind of bullet, with or without cannelure.
Also if you have access to an accurate caliper, check the size of your expander ball. It should be .310. The standard bullet for the 7.62x54R is .311. If you are looking for accuracy, slug the barrel of your gun & measure the slug diameter across the widest part of the bullet. I have seen barrels as large as .316 on some Russian Mosins. Regardless of what you have heard, .308 bullets generally don't shoot accurately in Russian firearms.

George

 

[colinjw]

I think that you do not have a crimping problem. If you can pull the bullets out by hand then there is not enough tension to hold them in.

Either the sizer is not sizing the brass neck down enough or more likely, as already pointed out you are working with the wrong size bullet or resizer.
If the sizer is .311 & you are using .308 bullets then they will be a little loose.

Can you check the barrel size to make sure what size bullet you need ?

 

[msiu.mpc]

Lyman's reloading handbook states that standard 7.62 Russian uses .311" - .312" bullets.

The resizing pin of the 7.62 Russian is designed for the bullet diameter mentioned above. Standard 30 cal bullets at .308" could be a hair small and might come loose.

I have tried Hornady's .312 303 Cal 150 Gr SP bullets with excellent results. They seat tight and crimping is optional but I crimped them anyway.

 

[Tex Critter]

Regardless of what you have heard, .308 bullets generally don't shoot accurately in Russian firearms. George

I have Hungarian M/N made in 1952. I load win 147gr FMJ .308 bullets or Horn 150gr FMJ .308 loaded with Lee dies. Have taken 1st, 2nd, & 3rd place with the gun at our annual Military Rifle Shoot for the past few years. The .308 work fine in my rifle, although I did buy factory ammo that was .311 diameter (had to get the brass somewhere).