Cast .303 British reloads

[Wilhelm]

Hi guys,

I'm thinking about reloading some .303 Brit ,but I have had bad luck finding supplies (read "bullets"). I am therefore considering purchasing 200gr cast bullets from the bullet barn and I was wondering if anyone had anything to say about these particular projectiles? Also, being a noob at reloading any favourite loads? I will be using PRVI Partizan brass that has only been fired in the rifle the reloads will be shot from (lee enfield #4 MK2), which I heard may be somewhat thicker than other commercial brass.

Thanks

Wilhelm

 

[ATOM]

I have not used those particular bullets, but I've used others from them and been well-satisfied with both price and performance. As to the PP brass, that's what I use. Even then, I limit them to three uses (one head separation out of town was enough to make my skeptical of just about everything).

 

[Ganderite]

If you neck size only (back off the FL die) you won't set the shoulder back and that should help case life.

I suggest you try 10 to 15 gr of shotgun powder.

In my rifle, the lower velocity was the most accurate.

 

[mwjones]

I use IVI 2002 headstamped brass. They were once fired when i got them, so i FL resized and fired the first time with a rubber o ring around the case head. Trimmed after first firing. Haven't had one split/seperate or even stretch yet.

I use a lee 312-155-2r made for 7.62x39, actually drops around 313 and 165 grains with wheel weight alloy. It shoots decently with the old standard, 13gr of red dot, and AMAZINGLY with 25gr of h4227.

 

[bigedp51]

Of all the commercial .303 brass Prvi Partizan has the thickest rims, the largest base diameter and case walls .010 thicker in the base than any other brand. (the case is built Ford truck tough)

The trick to making your cartridge cases last longer is proper fire forming the first time you fire the case, and not letting the case stretch and thin in the base web area.

I use .312 pistol bullets but any type bullet will work and using a reduced load of Trail Boss or SR4759, both these powders will fill the case and prevent double charging the case.

For the first firing I slip a small thin rubber o-ring around the case to hold the case firmly against the bolt face. When the bolt is closed the o-ring compresses and flattens, as the o-ring is compressed it centers the rear of the case in the chamber and improves case alignment with the bore. Thereafter no o-ring is needed and the shoulder then holds the case against the bolt face.

After the first fireforming and neck sizing only the case will then headspace on the shoulder and not the rim of the case.

Below is WHY you neck size only, in the photo below a fired .303 British case is resting in a American SAAMI Wilson case gauge and the case is resting on its shoulder. If you full length resize the case, the shoulder of the case will be pushed back the amount the case is sticking above the top of the Wilson gauge. The reason the case is sticking above the gauge is because the British military chamber is larger in diameter and the chamber is longer than its American civilian counter part. Because of our disagreement with King George 239 years ago we Americans decided to change the .303 British chamber dimensions, change how we spell the word color, made our football players wear protective head gear and put the steering wheel on the left side of the car.

On top of this our American made cases are not made to British military standards and rebel when fired in British military chambers.

Today is the 4th of July and American Independence day so I want to remind all you Canadians it only took Mel Gibson 1 hour and 53 minutes to defeat General Cornwallis.

And my mother is of Scottish descent.

And I drink the best made beer in North America.

 

[762nato]

I use a Lyman 314299 200 gr. sized to .313 with yellow dragon lube. My best load is 30 gr. of Varget so far. No problem with a double charge and it shoots around 1700 fps. Make sure you get bullets @0.313 or 0.314 perhaps even bigger with an enfield. Best way is to slug your bore then cast/size the bullet to that diameter. You metal will have to be hard enough to stand the velocity you wish to push it at, I have found around 12-14 bhn works well @ 1800 fps muzzle velocity for deer hunting. Kind of a black art, the more I learn about shooting cast bullets in a rifle the less I know.

Best of luck

A

 

[Old Ranger]

I've put thousands of rounds of cast through several Lee Enfields and a Ross. Neck size only and case life has been good- Up to 15 reloads. Have had only one case separation. Bullet is Lyman 311299 sized 314. Most used powder is H4198 but have also used 2400 and 5744. Accuracy is usually as good as jacketed bullets. Case life is better, reduced muzzle blast and recoil and I may wear out my mould before the bores of my 303's.

 

[LUTNIT]

As 762nato said you really do want to slug the bore of older surplus guns; especially Lee Enfields. You can have anything from .312" to .317"+ and cast bullet size is really important. The bullets from the bullet barn are only .313" which can be small for some LE's. I had one that slugged .315" and wouldn't shoot worth a damn with my cast .314". I ended up selling it instead of trying to source .316" mould and sizing dies. With jacketed bullets you can be undersized a little and it doesn't matter much. My LE that slugged .315" would shoot .312" jacketed bullets all day (but would tumble .3105's).

If you're hard up for a lead ball to slug the bore you can cut open a 00 buck shotshell. Just make sure it's a cheap one and not a premium one as the premium ones are sometimes copper or nickle plated shot which you don't want. If it's a 5-grove barrel it can be a pain to try to measure accurately. You'll also want to measure it to the nearest tenth (tenth of one thousandth or ten-thousandth of an inch) so you'll need a micrometer; most calipers are only rated for +/- .002" which is a country mile in terms of bullet diameters. Even those that pretend they display tenths shouldn't be trusted more than +/- .002".

I use a clone of the Lyman 314299 and they drop .315" as cast. I use .308 gas checks and size them down to .314". I don't have a LE anymore but do run mostly cast through my P14.

Some loads that work well for me with my .314" GC'ed 200gr cast are:
12gr Unique
18-20gr SR-4759 (discontinued by Hodgdon this year)
19-21gr H4198

I don't use any filler, always use magnum primers (easier to find for the past 18 months), and use mixed US brand brass (Win, WW, RP, FC).
With Alliant powders being hard/impossible to find I was going to try swapping Hodgdon 800X for Unique in some of my loads but haven't gotten around to it yet.

 

[mudgunner49]

I also use the 311299 modified to a plain base and use a glue on gas check made from soft drink cans. my mold drops at .3145 with my alloy and weighs 209 gr tumble-lubed with a mixture of 50-50 Alox and mineral spirits. I use 13 gr of Red Dot for around 1300 Fps and get 3-4" at 100m fairly consistently when I do my part...

 

[Wilhelm]

Thanks for the replies!

I don't use any filler, always use magnum primers (easier to find for the past 18 months), and use mixed US brand brass (Win, WW, RP, FC).

Magnum primers are the norm for casts?

 

[LUTNIT]

I switched most of my reloads to magnum because I was having such a hard time finding regular primers. I have 600-700 CCI #200's (regular rifle primers) for the accurate loads I developed with them for a couple rifles I use at longer ranges (200-300yds). Everything else (surplus rifles and any without scopes) I have switched over to Winchester magnum primers because they are what I've been able to find on a regular basis in order to keep things consistent. If I had a choice I'd be running CCI #200's in everything like I did 18 months ago before the shortages (except my 300WM since all the data for that recommends magnum).

Many recommend using magnum primers with light loads using shotgun powders because you can be talking about 50-80% empty space in the case and the extra flame can help ignition. I used regular primers for years even with really light loads and never had an issue. I switched them all to magnum since then for the above mentioned reason and haven't noticed a difference.

 

[Garand]

bigedp51, please remember that the US has attacked Canada 3 times (1779, 1812 & 1865) and was repulsed and defeated each time. But you probably never learned than in your History class at school, hope you guys had a great birthday

 

[bigedp51]

bigedp51, please remember that the US has attacked Canada 3 times (1779, 1812 & 1865) and was repulsed and defeated each time. But you probably never learned than in your History class at school, hope you guys had a great birthday

The United States of America has never attacked Canada the *nation, we were fighting British colonialism and taxation without representation, meaning we were tired of being used by the British.

Canada was not a independent country when we were at war with the British and the dates you quoted above. And the French in Canada were our allies (bazinga!)

"1867 - 1931: Becoming a Nation. With the passing of the British North America Act in 1867, Canada became a Dominion in the British Commonwealth and John A. Macdonald became Canada's first prime minister. This did not mean that it was a fully independent country, though."
http://www.canadiana.ca/citm/themes/constitution/constitution13_e.html

If you remember the British even blamed Canada during WWI for the Ross rifle to cover up the fact it was poorly made British ammunition that caused the problem in the mud of Flanders Fields. Before this they blamed the Australians for the poor treatment of Boer Wars prisoners in South Africa. And Cecil Rhodes once said he would start another war with America if he could exploit our American resources.

Now down to brass tacks, my last name is Horton and my Canadian cousin Tim Horton is the part of the Horton clan who stayed loyal to the King and moved to Canada. Now look at the Canadian Tim Horton restaurant locations below and tell me Canada hasn't invaded the U.S.A. and is trying to encircle Washington D.C. "AGAIN". Tim is even pushing the border limits out west and starting the 64-40 or fight issue all over again.

And "YOU" have the balls to say we attacked Canada just because we were fighting the British and wanting more say in how we were governed.

Besides many of us Americans think we aren't doing all that well governing ourselves and our politicians have made a even bigger mess of it.

 

[bigedp51]

I'm not trying to start another war with Canada but you Canadians even took Cheyenne Mountain underground bunker in Colorado Springs, Colorado and moved it to Vancouver. You even took our last Star Gate and left us defenseless against illegal aliens.

 

[LUTNIT]

But since every alien world looks like the BC interior you aren't missing much by not having a Star Gate ;D

 

[green_fury]

Back to the OP. This is an excerpt from C.E. Harris's article on "Cast Bullet Loads For Military Rifles" Very good read.

"Sixteen Grains of #2400 is the Universal Load

The same 16 grain charge of #2400 is universal for all calibers as a starting load. It is mild and
accurate in any larger military case from a 30-40 Krag or .303 British up through a 30-06 or 7.9x57,
with standard weight bullets of suitable diameter for the caliber. This is my recommendation for
anybody trying cast bullets loads for the first time in a military rifle without prior load development.
I say this because #2400 is not "position sensitive", requires no fiber fillers to ensure uniform
ignition, and actually groups better when you stripper-clip load the rifle and bang them off, rather
than tipping the muzzle up to position the powder charge.

Similar ballistics can be obtained with other powders in any case from 7.62x39 to 30-06 size. If you
don't have Hercules #2400, you can freely substitute 17 grains of IMR or H4227, 18 grains of 4198,
21 grains of Reloder 7, 24 grains of IMR 3031, or 25.5 grains of 4895 for comparable results.
However, these other powders may give some vertical stringing in cases larger than the 7.62x39
unless the charge is positioned against the primer by tipping the muzzle up before firing. Hercules
#2400 does not require this precaution. Don't ask me why. Hercules #2400 usually gives tight
clusters only within a narrow range of charge weights within a grain or so, and the "universal" 16
grain load is almost always the best. Believe me, we have spent a lot of time trying to improve on
this, and you can take our word for it.

The beauty of the "200 yard target load" at about 1500 f.p.s. is that it can be assembled from bullets
cast from the cheapest, inexpensive scrap alloy, and fired all day without having to clean the bore. It
always works. Leading is never a problem. Once a uniform bore condition is established, the rifle
behaves like a .22 match rifle, perhaps needing a warming shot or two if it has cooled, but otherwise
being remarkably consistent."​

Google the title and you should be able to find the whole article fairly easily. Have fun. I personally use 26 gr. of IMR4895.

 

[LUTNIT]

16gr of 2400. I've been looking for 2400 for over a year now with no luck
I have read about 10gr of Unique being a great starting point for almost everything as well.
Been meaning to try out 12-15gr of 800X since that's a lot easier to find.

 

[bigedp51]

But since every alien world looks like the BC interior you aren't missing much by not having a Star Gate ;D

Keep stirring it up LUTNIT, our drought stricken framers in California are talking about moving Seattle 500 miles north so the the crops will get some rain.

But then again our actors go back to Southern California to get dry after filming in Vancouver.

And some dumb Americans like bigedp51 take a cruise of the Pacific Northwest and it rains every day. "BUT" it was dry inside the Vancouver airport terminal.

The Captain of the Aleutian Ballard in the yellow jacket below was the Captain on the Cornelia Marie after Captain Phil Harris died of a stroke in the TV series "The Deadliest Catch".

How do you say it was very wet in Canadian? (it was The X-Files filming wet)

 

[45ACPKING]

hahaha that's awesome LOL

I'm not trying to start another war with Canada but you Canadians even took Cheyenne Mountain underground bunker in Colorado Springs, Colorado and moved it to Vancouver. You even took our last Star Gate and left us defenseless against illegal aliens.

 

[Ganderite]

2400 is my favourite reduced power powder because it tends to be accurate. I used to sue it to make sub-sonic ammo for suppressed rifles.

I recently used Unique (12.5gr) to make 303 cast bullet loads (203gr) because I could not find my jug of 2400.