cast 311 help

jed

jed

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I am not sure if this is the right place to ask but I figured you guys would probably have an answer for me. I recently picked up a model 94 (30 wcf) with a nice patina and a lousy bore. The bore is dark and the rifling is visible but shallow. Jacketed bullets at 25 yards consistently hit the targets sideways. I was able to push a 314 bullet through the bore. The bullet measured 311 when it came out. Now it was tight in places and loose in others so I have some concerns about the rifling.

What I am wondering is if based on the experience in the group do you think a gas checked .311 diameter bullet would restore this 116 year old rifle to the deer woods? I am not looking for target grade accuracy but I would like to be able to shoot 2.5 inch groups at 50 yards.

I have been trying to find some 311 cast bullets for sale just to try but I can only find .309. I figure a new mold, sizer and gas checks will run me close to $200. I might need an M die if I have to load .311 or .312 diameter bullets so that brings the cost up as well.

Or for that same money I could get the rifle rebored to 38-55.

The most logical thing might be to put an ad in the ammo EE and see if someone would sell me a half dozen .311 bullets to try or just write it off and go for the rebore. What is the consensus of the group will the old girl ever shoot again? Thanks Jed
 
Well if she slugs @ .311 you would want to be 1 to 2 thou larger. I however am no expert. The other concern is if the chamber can accommodate a boolit that large stuffed into your case. A .312" boolit might be what the bore needs but if the rounds won't chamber then you are SOL. Here's a test you can try. Take a fired, unsized case and see if you can slide the .311 slug into the case mouth. If it slides in by hand then you're ok. If it needs to be pressed in (swelling the case neck) then its rebore or rebarrel.
 
I've never had an issue with loading .311" bullets into all my .308" rifles; even a Rem 700 in .308 Win with a super tight chamber. I had a Marlin 336 that would chamber until I hit .314" (just wanted to see what the limit was; they where dummy rounds). I've never found I needed an M-die and even pulled cast bullets mic the same diameter as when I loaded them (pure WW, water dropped).

If you just want to test to see if they'll work you can try to get some as-cast .311" or .312" bullets from someone, tumble lube them, and use a Lee push through sizer (available in .311"). For $20 it's not a huge loss in case it doesn't work.
You use .30 cal gas checks up to at least .314" sized so there is no need for special checks.
After that you can look into getting a custom cut .311" mould specific to the .30-30 and everything else. Even then I can't see it being much more than $150 (~$100 for a custom mould, <$50 for a new lubrisizer die).

If you have a line on someone who'll rebore a barrel for $200, I'm all ears. Last time I looked into it the price was over $500 when you included getting the chamber cut. Compared to even the $150 investment that seems excessive (unless you aren't casting at all at the moment but you made it sound like you are).

An ad in the EE as you said is probably the best option to try to find a couple dozen bullets. I cast several different .311" for my .308" rifles but mine are all long nosed and/or pointed; not really suitable for .30-30.
 
I just cast a whole ton of .314. Some are a little under sized at .313. If you want I will be more than happy to send you a handful of them already gas checked and lubed. Send me a PM. I'll pick out the .313's for you (I'm not sure if .314 is too big or not seeing as though it's 3 thousandths of an inch larger but I can't see it being too much of an issue - if you want I can send a few of those as well for you to test out if it turns out to be safe)

Just do your research first to see if these rounds are safe to use. The mould they came out of was a Lee 312-185-1R. (.312 dia, 185 grain round nose).
 
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Thanks guys Supernova as soon as I find some slugs that will be my first step. Sapper6 I sent you a pm, Lutnit I was referring to JES rebore in Idaho. I was told 2 to 300 for the job. Shipping and the import export paperwork will be a hassle but I really like this rifle and if the rifling will stabilize a cast bullet I would like to keep the original data stamp and shoot it as is.
 
I shoot .311 out of all my 308 bore guns. I have some Ranch dog 170Gr bullets sized to .311 that I could send you as well if the .313/.314s offered are too big.
The ranch dog design needs to be seated deeper then normal to function in most win's but it will give you a idea of what will work.

Let me know
 
thanks for the kind offer if the 313's dont shoot I'll let you know. Have a good day Jed
 
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First of all, give the bore a really good cleaning. Use a good brass bristle brush, and you might even get a .39 calibre size to use on it. Get a can of "Wipe-Out" or another good foaming type bore cleaner. Disassemble the rifle so that you can clean from the breech end. Plug the chamber with a bit of old cloth or toilet paper, ram it a bit to get a good solid plug.

Use the foaming bore cleaner. Follow the directions on the can. wrap a bit of cloth or toilet paper around the muzzle --it only takes a small shot of the foaming bore cleaner but people tend to give it too much and end up with foam coming out the muzzle. Give the bore a shot of the foaming bore cleaner, clean off the excess, THEN LET IT SIT WITH THE BARREL HORIZONTAL OVERNIGHT. Clean the next morning and inspect the bore. If still a bit dark, repeat the foaming bore cleaner treatment. I have brought dirty and rusted bores back into shootable codition using this method.

Since it is 30-30, and you intend using cast bullets in it, the bore should be in fairly good condition to help prevent leading as a rough bore will lead up more easily. You could use a lead lap or some of the bore polishing products such as JB Paste.

Because the 30-30 is a bit lower velocity, in the 2000-2200 range with 170 grain bullets, you can drive lead bullets at the same velocity as cast bullets but you had better use a very good lubricant on them, and a gas check. A cast bullet of about .002 over bore size should work well.
 
supernova said:
Well if she slugs @ .311 you would want to be 1 to 2 thou larger. I however am no expert. The other concern is if the chamber can accommodate a boolit that large stuffed into your case. A .312" boolit might be what the bore needs but if the rounds won't chamber then you are SOL. Here's a test you can try. Take a fired, unsized case and see if you can slide the .311 slug into the case mouth. If it slides in by hand then you're ok. If it needs to be pressed in (swelling the case neck) then its rebore or rebarrel.
Click to expand...

Here in is the major problem with Winchester 1894's in 38-55, usually the correct sized lead bullet will not chamber and you have to use Starline brass that is way thinner in the mouth area to try and chamber correctly.

You might be surprised at how little rifling you actually need to get a bullet to fly straight at modest speed with 50/50 lead and wheel weights. I have a 1894 Win in 30/30 that sounds about in the same boat that yours is in. I can chamber a .311 311041 hollow point bullet but I can not get one sized to .312 to chamber. With the .311 it will do just under 2" at 100 yards using IMR 3031 and about 3/4 speed to a normal jacketed bullet. With the hollow point you don't need a lot of horsepower behind it to bring home the venison as this combo has worked great twice now in the last couple of years.

If you want a hand full of the 311041 hollow points I can send you some, they were from a group buy on Castboolits website and made by Mihec Molds in Europe. First rate molds for sure and if you don't want the hollow point you just flip the pin around and you now have solids.
 
Another possibility would be to use Lee's 303Br. mold, a 185gr round nose. It's cheap and plenty big, and Lee's push through sizers work well - also cheap. After you properly clean your barrel, and before you do anything else terribly expensive, try a small dose of fire lapping - see LBT's site for instructions.
Grouch
 
I would try some .311,.312 and even .314 sized boolits if it was mine.

I nearly always size boolits to fit the throat (just in front of the chamber) rather than bore.In worn out bores I use softer lead than WW too.

It works for me great,it might work for you too :)
 
Try some .312" cast bullets. That's a size usually reserved for .303brit or 7.62rusky.

Based on your description there might be no bullet that will shoot well. You could try jacketed bullets made for the .303 british. Cast bullets don't shoot so well in rough bores and tend to lead up badly. It's worth a try though, you have nothing to lose by trying.
 
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