Cast bullet hunting velocity.

R

regulate34

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Hi guys.

I have been playing with lead cast bullets in my 30-30. Lots of fun.
I would like to hunt with this set up this year.

My loads right now are around 1600fps with a 165g no gas check.

These are from the bullet barn. They say 25bh.

Too hard for a hunting bullet?

I don't think 1600fps is fast enough. What do you think?
 
If i was to hunt with a Lead bullet

Gas check
go as heavy that will feed from mag -->180-190g (you want them to keep the bullet in the case if you have to pull around from chamber)
if it wont feed from the mag you could top load

push it to 1800-1900 2000 fps as along as you can get good groups-- no faster

if you can't get a good group you might be pushing it too fast or wrong powder
 
I am using IMR 4198. I am waiting for my peep sights to come in before I get to any serious load development

It's in a marlin 336
 
I push 30-30 cast bullets to over 2000 fps. There are lots of variables at play. You rifle and the bore condition, bullet diameter, hardness, powder speed, etc.

Gnerally speaking and in MY experience:

- use a bullet that is at keast .001" larger than your barrel OD. Bullet diameter is likely the most important variable

- super hard bullets don't necessarily cure leading

- going with slightly slower powder than what would be considered optimal with jacketed bullets will quite often allow you to get higher velocity before leading starts.


There is a lot more to it than that, but that's a good place to start. Velocity is not everything, there really isn't a bunch of difference between a 30-30 bullet going 1800 fps and one going 2000 fps.
 
If you want to use cast bullets and still hit 2000'ish or more with reduced risk of leading check into paper patching of the bullets.

If you want to stick with gas checked for the added speed they offer I see that Bullet Barn has a 200gn LRNGC option. But to keep things safe you'd want to flatten the nose by removing 6 or 8 gns worth of lead so it's safe in the tube magazine. Or keep it to loading only two so the first one is chambered and only the backup is in the tube. Mind you these 200 grain bullets are long as well. So you may need to trim for a flat nose just to keep the OAL of the round within spec.
 
Any cast bullet will expand upon impact regardless of its hardness. Moreso if and when it hits a bone. Take your load varmint hunting to prove it to yourself. Accuracy is far more important than velocity too.
 
I agree accuracy is most important. If a arrow can kill a deer then so can any bullet.

The bore is tight on my marlin at just under .309".
So I went with the .309" sized bullets.

Right now I have no leading at all. But I kept them slow because of the microgroove bbl.

I think I will work up the powder and see where my groups go south or I get leading. What ever comes first.

I'll do a little bit or reaserch on paper patches.
 
1300 - 1900 fps with heavy (400+ grains), hardcast lead 45 caliber rifle knocked em dead for me out of my 450 Marlin and 45-70 rifles without fail for years.
Moose, elk and 1 inland brown bear "Grizzly" dropped like a blacksmith's anvil in a down draft.
They don't need to expand.
They're already 45 caliber right from the muzzle.
 
Adding velocity much past 1800 fps for big caliber (45 caliber and greater) hard cast bullets doesn't increase killing effectiveness it just increases recoil and the likelihood of barrel leading.
My 430 grain hardcast (BH:25) lead bullets I use in my 450 Marlin and 45-70 move out approx 1750 fps - plenty of killing power and no leading.
 
I load my 9.3X62 rifles with a 285 gr plain base bullet to 2200 fps.....with no leading.

Here's how: http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/foru...-Bullet-####?p=9636645&viewfull=1#post9636645

Ted
 
Look up Ranch Dog moulds. I think LEE moulds may have bought him out.? Great hunting bullet design for many available calibers.
 
Gunoholic said:
Adding velocity much past 1800 fps for big caliber (45 caliber and greater) hard cast bullets doesn't increase killing effectiveness it just increases recoil and the likelihood of barrel leading.
My 430 grain hardcast (BH:25) lead bullets I use in my 450 Marlin and 45-70 move out approx 1750 fps - plenty of killing power and no leading.
Click to expand...

Are you moving these bullets at that speed without gas checks?
 
sunray said:
Any cast bullet will expand upon impact regardless of its hardness. Moreso if and when it hits a bone. Take your load varmint hunting to prove it to yourself. Accuracy is far more important than velocity too.
Click to expand...

Sunray, have you ever done any hunting with cast bullets?
I have made alloys that expand so little, the bullet is nearly prestine! And that was around 1800 fps.
A cast bullets ability to upset can be manipulated hugely by varying alloy properties! Adding tin or antimony,etc to give hardness or toughness to the alloys yield strengths/characteristics.

Accuracy is most important, and if you want to advance velocities and pressures to give you velocities much above 1700fps (approx), you really should be shooting a gaschecked bullet.

"Accurate moulds". Makes a great product, and made various flat point variations that would do the job you need. I like to make sure the bullet doesnt protrude past the bottom of the case neck when seated to the crimp groove.
Accurate mould#311-170C is a great choice to try, and is specifically designed for the 30-30 Winchester.

I mix 18lbs of wheel weight lead with 8ft of 50/50 lead/tin solder. I use magnaflux (from brownells), to flux my alloy, and allow my bullets to cool in the ambient air. They will work fine for you.

Hope this helps.
 
freire said:
Ted, mind telling what powder you are using?
Thanks.
Victor
Click to expand...

CF8506, a surplus powder from Higginson, but any medium-slow powder will work. It is a tad slower than 4320.

The important component is the cotton wad. It hinders the powder gases from blowing through the the COW, while the COW protects the bullet base from fusing, and also scours the bore. Presto, lead-free at over 2200 fps without a gas check!

If you read further in that thread you will see further discussion about this, especially the accuracy, and the same results from BwanaDave when he tried it. http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/foru...-Bullet-####?p=9893472&viewfull=1#post9893472

Ted
 
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I'd forget hard cast and use 18 or 20:1 lead and tin to improve expansion. You can achieve near 2000fps with gas checked bullets and often achieve better accuracy than you get with harder alloys. The advantages of hard cast are often wildly exaggerated.
Grouch
 
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