Casting Bullets for Muzzle Loaders

icanuck

icanuck

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OK, so I rounded up a PH .577 Enfield made in England from a fellow CGN'r and now I have to start thinking about feeding it. I've read alot out there about buying or making the minies and the realization it seems is to make them - and I can't wait to figure this part out.

The Enfield is coming with the mold made for the PH, which as I've read from other threads here and in other forums is a good thing. This is where you guys come in. I've never cast anything in my life.

I understand I need as pure lead as I can find to make the skirt of the minie to expand and grab the rifling. Where do I get pure lead? I've read I can use wheel weights (luckily I have a reliable source of these if needed), but others recommend against this. I don't have access to construction sites to find scrap as I've read are good sources (old pipes, x-ray machines, telecommunications). Can I purify the wheel weights to a higher percentage lead? Help...

Can I buy ingots of lead? Even better can I get them in Ottawa. I would think that buying an ingot and using it would still be much cheaper than buying molded minies? Easier than messing with dirty wheel weights?

I've read the size is important (.575 or .576 vs .577) for repeated firings between cleaning. Can I get a bullet resizing die for my RCBS Rockchucker?

Would the wheel weights be good for .50 cal round balls? I would think so?

I was also thinking does Lyman make a mold that I could make 45 cal bullets to sabot and put through my inlines? Anyone try this?

Anyone who has some experience they want to share would be greatly appreciated, or someone in the Ottawa area willing to show me would be great.
 
They don't make sizing dies that big, that i know of, as the wall would be too thin. Forget wheel weights for muzzle loading and use pure lead or 30-1 lead- tin, wheel weights contain antimony among other things that harden the lead and make it more brittle and should cause the "skirted" mini ball to break off on firing, maybe just often enough to cause flyers. When you get the rifle be sure to slug the barrel and then get a mold that matches.....577 bore diameters are all over the place, I have .584" and .590" Minis, you should also find out/check for the rate of twist as some of the slow twist barrels do as well with a soft round ball.
 
OK, so I rounded up a PH .577 Enfield made in England
Click to expand...

First generation PARKER HALE'S have a gain twist barrels like the originals.
2 Band including the Musketoons are a 1 X 48"
3 Band is a 1 X 78"

I've read the size is important (.575 or .576 vs .577) for repeated firings between cleaning.
Click to expand...

First generation PARKER HALE'S are made to tight tolerances.
Usually a .577 bore, so you will be looking for a minimum of .575 Minie.

Ideal fit for the Minie is 2 thousands under bore (Land to Land) diameter.

As Ben said slug the bore, but if you are unfamiliar with slugging bores on muzzle loaders, get someone with experience to do this for you.

If the mold that you are getting is the Parker Hale mold, you should be good to go.

Large sizing dies for Minie's are available at

Miami Valley Sutler -(937) 418-0895

Lodgewood Mfg. - (262) 473-5444 http://www.lodgewood.com/

Rebel Trading Post - (800) 681-4661

North East Trade Company - (570) 546-2061 http://www.northeasttrading.com/

Blue & Gray Relic Shop - (717) 294-3326

s&s firearms at 718-497-1100 http://www.ssfirearms.com/

and others

Some of the best information on shooting these muskets are here

http://www.n-ssa.org/phpBB3/index.php?sid=c7425d189836c2632fc9496508d3c4c2
 
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Sizing

I have the 3 band and Musketoon Parker Hales. They both fire the PH minnie very well. The minnies are not sized and I do not see why you should have to do so. If there is no one around to help you out there are many good books on the subject of bullet casting ( Lyman black powder manual or Lyman cast bullet manual.). I cast mine from pure lead with some wheel weight alloy thrown in. No scientific method here, I just add the alloy until the minnies start coming out of the mold with no imperfections ( I think 16% is about were I'm at). Another thing to know is that you are casting a pretty big bullet and if your mold is cool you will not get a good pore. I leave my mold on top of my electric melting pot so by the time it has the lead melted the mold is good and hot.

Cheers. Steve.
 
cigar_man said:
First generation PARKER HALE'S have a gain twist barrels like the originals.
2 Band including the Musketoons are a 1 X 48"
3 Band is a 1 X 78"
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure that it's a 1:78. I will have to try patched round ball in it and see how it does. I have a New Englander that I really enjoy putting patched round balls through.
 
Pure lead supply

If you contact a roofing company you may be able to score some of the lead flashings used for plumbing vents. The next source may be a scrap metal dealer. Add some tin to your lead via wheel weights as you will find it will cast better.

Cheers. Steve.
 
Yellow pages. Look under "Metals, Suppliers" and any other heading you can think of that relates to metal and start making phone calls.

Lead is not too expensive to buy. Not in quantities that you need to get going, anyway.

Rule of thumb for scrounged lead. You should have no trouble ripping a gouge in it with a fingernail, if it pure, or close to. Grab a wheel weight to compare to. Wheel weights are a bit harder.

Check out the castboolits site, too. It may look intimidating, but the basics of making a decent bullet can be done with very few tools, and very small investment. Casting tends to attract tinkers and gear freaks that want to try other stuff! :)

Cheers
Trev
 
trevj said:
Yellow pages. Look under "Metals, Suppliers" and any other heading you can think of that relates to metal and start making phone calls.

Lead is not too expensive to buy. Not in quantities that you need to get going, anyway.

Rule of thumb for scrounged lead. You should have no trouble ripping a gouge in it with a fingernail, if it pure, or close to. Grab a wheel weight to compare to. Wheel weights are a bit harder.

Check out the castboolits site, too. It may look intimidating, but the basics of making a decent bullet can be done with very few tools, and very small investment. Casting tends to attract tinkers and gear freaks that want to try other stuff! :)

Cheers
Trev
Click to expand...

I called three scrap metal places and they will not sell lead to the public. WTF. I'll have to do some scrounging.

Does Ellwood Epps sell .58 minies? Anywhere else at least to get me started?
 
Leave the scrap metal places to the junkies and tweakers that are offloading their copper wire and 'salvaged' plumbing. I'm frankly a bit surprised that they would turn away any potential paying customer, but it's pretty rare to get a deal at a scrap yard these days, sorta like getting a deal at a pawn shop.

Call the folks that supply known alloy ingots, new.

Dig around on Castboolits (search) and see if there are any suppliers in your area.

Cheers
Trev
 
A couple or three things:

The Parker Hale has fixed-twist progressive-depth rifling, not gain twist. It diminishes from .015 deep at the breech to .005 deep at the muzzle. Plain-base conicals and patched round balls often benefit from having a wad or filler underneath to seal those deep grooves at the breech, as any engraving will have been done to the .005" depth at the muzzle. Minie's sometimes benefit from a filler underneath for the same reason - with the hollow base, wads are more problematic.

You only need a sizing die to reduce the Minie or to true it up, as the molds are intended to drop an undersize projectile, not an oversize one. Measure your bore and the balls as cast - you likely will not need to size them. As you have likely already read, oversize bore are more often the problem, and paper-patching may be necessary. If this is the case, then your specific combination of bore, conical, and paper dimensions may benefit from sizing.

Stick-on wheel weights are reported to be very soft - close to pure lead. Clip-on ones are always harder alloy, although that alloying is about half of what was used back when some of the classic cast-bullet information was originally written. Harder round balls work fine in smoothbores and often work well in rifles with a thick-enough patch - you might need to use a somewhat smaller ball for the caliber. Hard balls are (and were in the period) sometimes preferred by hunters for increased penetration when shooting game that is somewhat large for the caliber being used, and/or when going for head-shots or other heavy bone breaking.

Regards,
Joel
 
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