Casting Mini's

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petew

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I did some casting tonight with varied results. The steel Lyman mold cast a bunch of nice 50 cal 360 gr maxi balls for me, but I could not get the Lee mold to cast 54 cal mini's. They are wrinkled no matter how hot or cool I tried. They drop out very good, but they are wrinkled. I smoked the mold, and heated it, tried it cool, tried it very hot.
The lead pot has the bottom valve for direct pour and it works great.
Anyone have some tips for getting good mini bullets from the Lee Aluminum molds?
Pete
 
My experience with aluminum moulds is that they heat up much more quickly than steel. I would wonder what mix you are using? Is it pure lead or wheel weights or something else? When casting with Lee moulds I usually rotate three different calibers so they won't over heat. Sometimes a mix with more tin pours better. Dave
 
I got rid of my bottom pour and use a dip method. The bottom pour doesn't seem fast enough on large volume pours. For pure lead on large volume I have the heat set to max.

I cast 12 and 20 gauge slugs and round balls for 50 and 45.
 
My Lee mold makes excellent .54 minie's, 415gr. I believe. Before I start I clean the cavities with Q-tips and lighter fluid to remove any grease or oil, the slightest amount will cause your problem. Use pure lead only. You're smoking the mold well which is needed. Heat the lead to a high temp and cast a few, they will no doubt be wrinkled then turn the heat down a bit and try again. You should get good results quickly. The most important thing I have found in 15 years of casting these and RB's is cleaning the mold 1st. The mold itself will not get too hot, I use the 1st discarded balls as a means to heat it up. No reason why you can't get the same results. Good luck
 
If you add a small amount of tin or antimony to the lead, it lowers the melting point of the mixture and will fill the mold better. I have never been able to cast a good mini using pure lead and usually got a shrinkage cavity at the top of the bases recess as well as creases and cracks in the skirt. Those disappeared when I went to 5% alloyed lead

cheers mooncoon
 
What are you smoking the mould with--if you use a candle it will leave an oily/greasy residue on the mould. Paper matches or a carbide sight blackener work well. If you are casting with pure lead for the mini it must be quite hot and well fluxed in the pot. As Mooncoon says a bit of tin in the mix helps the lead flow better into the mould.

Keep trying--you will get there.
 
44Bore said:
What are you smoking the mould with--if you use a candle it will leave an oily/greasy residue on the mould.
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I use a coal oil lamp with the chimney removed; seems to work quite well. If I get any oil vapour dimples in my bullets, I splash a bit of acetone on the mold while it is hot

cheers mooncoon
 
If I can't get it right after these good tips , I don't know. The first thing it seems is a need to clean the mold again , and then work on the heat . I am using pure lead, I tried alloy before and it loads to hard.
Thanks for the good tips guys.
Pete
 
petew said:
I am using pure lead, I tried alloy before and it loads to hard.
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You only need 5% or less alloy to lower the casting temperature and that should have little impact on the difficulty of loading. Also mini balls are supposed to be bore diameter so that while a high percentage alloy may not be accurate because it does not expand inside the bore, it should not be hard to load. It sounds like your mini balls may be somewhat oversize.

cheers mooncoon
 
Wrinkling can also mean the mould is not warm enough. Pre-heat the mould by letting it sit on the top of the pot or hold the lower forward edge in the molten lead for a minute or so before you start a casting session. Controlling the mould temperature is just as important or maybe more important than the pot temperature. Cast faster to raise temperature and slow down to lower the mould temp. I heat my mould until the sprue plate lube starts to smoke, and then I start casting fast as I can to warm up the mould. First few casts will be wrinkly, but once you get the mould to the right temp the bullets start dropping out like magic. No smoking the mould is required on most every mould I've used as long as you run it warm enough.
 
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mooncoon said:
If you add a small amount of tin or antimony to the lead, it lowers the melting point of the mixture and will fill the mold better. I have never been able to cast a good mini using pure lead and usually got a shrinkage cavity at the top of the bases recess as well as creases and cracks in the skirt. Those disappeared when I went to 5% alloyed lead

cheers mooncoon
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Re: the shrinkage at the top of the base plug,I have had a heck of a time with what I called an air bubble at the top of the base plug, in otherwise perfect .58 cal minnies.
This problem has followed me through 3 different molds,2 Lee & a RCBS.
Its definetly me, not the molds.
I have varied the amount of tin,ladles and bottom pour,the angle of the mold,on and on........no help,but as far as temperature Ive only gone up,trying to get everything hotter.
Next time I think I will go cooler untill i get wrinkles,then just up the temp alittle.
Any other ideas?
PS,if this is "hijacking" the thread let me know Ill start a new one,I dont know much on internet ettiquet
 
keet said:
Re: the shrinkage at the top of the base plug,I have had a heck of a time with what I called an air bubble at the top of the base plug, in otherwise perfect .58 cal minnies.
This problem has followed me through 3 different molds,2 Lee & a RCBS.
Its definetly me, not the molds.
Click to expand...

If you let a pot of pure lead harden, you will notice a dramatic amount of shrinkage. In my pot, I get a deep cavity down the center. When I add a small amount of tin to the mixture (5%) the amount of shrinkage drops markedly. The same effect can be seen in mini balls at the top of the cavity. When casting round ball it is not a problem because the shrinkage occurs in the sprue and usually does not extend down into the ball. Pure lead also melts at roughly 600F vs about 450F for alloys even as low as 5%. That means your mold has to be a lot hotter and or the skirt thicker when casting mini balls because otherwise the skirt will freeze before it is completely filled

Worth mentioning that the skirt of a US style mini is quite different from a british mini. The US style comes to a sharp thin edge while the british one is about .1" thick, based on original bullets

cheers mooncoon
 
The saga continues. Today I melted a pot of pure lead,about 10 pounds, and proceded to start casting 50 cal maxi's in the lyman mould. This time I was using the dipper ladel with a spout in the bottom. 180 perfect bullets. Great, so I bring out the Lee 54 cal mould and heat it up. Wrinkle city again, so more heat and so on till I finaly start getting passable bullets.
It seems that the Lee mould needs more heat and it also looses the heat faster.
Tomorow I will give it another run with the Lee 54 mini and see how it goes.I wish I had a Lyman 54 maxi mould.
 
petew said:
I did some casting tonight with varied results. The steel Lyman mold cast a bunch of nice 50 cal 360 gr maxi balls for me, but I could not get the Lee mold to cast 54 cal mini's. They are wrinkled no matter how hot or cool I tried. They drop out very good, but they are wrinkled. I smoked the mold, and heated it, tried it cool, tried it very hot.
The lead pot has the bottom valve for direct pour and it works great.
Anyone have some tips for getting good mini bullets from the Lee Aluminum molds?
Pete
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Hold the sprue hole AGAINST the valve and hold the valve open for 3-5 seconds.

youl have all the pressure of the full pot pushing lead into every corner of the mould.
 
petew said:
I did some casting tonight with varied results. The steel Lyman mold cast a bunch of nice 50 cal 360 gr maxi balls for me, but I could not get the Lee mold to cast 54 cal mini's. They are wrinkled no matter how hot or cool I tried. They drop out very good, but they are wrinkled. I smoked the mold, and heated it, tried it cool, tried it very hot.
The lead pot has the bottom valve for direct pour and it works great.
Anyone have some tips for getting good mini bullets from the Lee Aluminum molds?
Pete
Click to expand...

Wrinkled bullets are caused by two things - either the mould is too cold or it is contaminated, or both.

When you get a new mould clean it with a solvent and then wash it with soap and water and a nylon brush (an old toothbrush works nicely) and then boil it in a pot of water. Smoke from candles and kerosene leave petroleum residue and that can cause problems. If you feel that you need to smoke the mould then use a piece of newspaper, but try no smoke at all. I never smoke moulds.

Aluminum has better heat transfer properties than brass or iron moulds, which means aluminum moulds cool off faster. Cold moulds are the major cause of wrinkled bullets. Casting speed controls the mould temperature. If possible preheat your mould until the sprue lube is smoking. When you start a casting session move quickly. Pour, then watch for the sprue to harden. When it does - count "one, two" and then immediately cut the sprue and drop the bullet. Don't waste time examining the bullet, as quickly as you can close the mould and fill it again. Expect to have 10-20 slightly deformed bullets before they start getting good.

Faster casting speed will heat up your mould quickly. When you reach a good temperature and bullets are filled nicely you start to slow down a bit to maintain that temperature without getting too hot. You'll know the mould temperature is about right when it takes 3-5 seconds for the sprue to harden after pouring. You are casting too fast when you start to get a lead smear on the top of the mould or the bottom of the sprue cutter.
 
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I was back at it again today, and the success on the Lee moulds is improving, but it just does not cast like the Lyman does. Lots of heat does make for better bullets in the Lee moulds. Without a doubt the Lyman is the user friendly brand. I will be looking for a 45 cal maxi and it will not be a lee. I will be looking to get my hands on a Lyman 54 too. Untill then I will bulk up on 50 cal's/lyman and do the minimum on the 54 from the lee. I have a good stock of roundballs for now, but in the future I will be looking for Lyman moulds for RB in 45/50/and 54.
Pete

So I don't quit easy. back at it again tonight and this time used the electric pot and heated the lead red hot, smoked the mould with a candle and finaly got rid of the wrinkles, but now I am getting over pour around the hollow base. It is easy enough to trim off but a pain in the butt.It seems that the mould halves don't always close up tight. Now to make a good bullet I need to lightly close the handles, then rap the mould on the front side with a piece of wood I use to tap open the sprue plate. This lets the mould completely close up and produce a good Mini.
Never again will I get a Lee Mould.
 
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I have a 44 Lee mould that tends to misalign similar to what you described. They are fixable and some people don't mind having to screw with them to make them work properly, but I don't buy too many Lee moulds anymore.
 
I started yesterday with a brand new Lee mold to cast .600 round balls and I thought I should share my experience. I was using pure lead. I have cast a few thousand balls using Lee molds and found them a bit more tempermental than Lyman but they will cast good bullets. As per instructions, I lubed the indexing bars and sprue pivot but did get some lube in the cavity so had to clean it a couple of times with a paper towel and brake shoe cleaner - I have had good success with acetone too. Then I smoked it with a candle. First 20 or so came out with wrinkles as the mold heated up so I gradually got better results but still not perfect. So I cleaned twice again and smoked it really well with a burning twist of newspaper. Then I heated my pot until I had it hot enough to show a layer of blue lead oxide (not so hot as to produce a soft gold sheen, however) so I knew I was casting a bit hotter than usual. After about a dozen more balls the mold temperature stabilized and I cast 250 perfect balls without a hitch. I have used lots of steel Lyman molds and both must be really clean to cast well but the Lyman seems to require less heat, probably because the aluminum looses heat more quickly. Fluxing the pot with old candle wax about every 10 minutes seemed to help the pour and removed an amazing amount of crud. Still, I found no need to rush the pouring once the mold temperature stabilized. I pour from a dipper, not a bottom-pour pot. Lubing the indexing/alignment bars about every hundred casts helps keep the mold halves properly aligned for good bullets. Good luck, little details are important so don't get discouraged.
 
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I guess I finaly got it figured out. The casting seems to be working pretty good. We tried shooting the 50 and 54 cal mini, and maxi's from 5 diferent guns on the weekend and all loaded easy, and grouped well. That was a relief. I hated the thought of making all those bullets and having them not fit or shoot.
I ran across some Maxi style bullets in the closet in 54 cal, and tried to find a Maxi mould in 54, but lee and Lyman do not show it in their catalogues. Does anyone know who makes the maxi moulds in 54cal ?
Pete
 
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