Caveat Emptor (Buyer Beware)

That barrel is in 'fair' condition - regardless what rifle it is attached to.

'better than average' for a Mosin is still craptastic, and should be graded as such.
 
It's not NRA fair. It's "good" Read the definitions.

GOOD: In safe working condition, minor wear on working surfaces, no broken parts, no corrosion or pitting that will interfere with proper functioning.

FAIR: In safe working condition but well worn, perhaps requiring replacement of minor parts or adjustments which should be indicated in advertisement, no rust, but may have corrosion pits which do not render article unsafe or inoperable.
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Assuming there are no broken parts requiring replacement - that rifle is NRA "good". That is the difference between "good" and "fair".
 
Not sure what to add, except maybe that I tend to agree that milsurp bores have the "right" to be a little bit crappier than modern rifles and get the same rating. That said, if I read "excellent bore", I am thinking about something like a Polish almost-unfired M44, or a No4 Lee Enfield FTR'ed in the 50's with barely any wear.

I do think it's tricky for the average milsurp lover to assess how sharp the rifling is, how strong it is; I mean, between a Mauser, a Lee Enfield, a Mosin, a Schmidt-Rubin... they do look different enough to make it hard for some folks to compare one with the other; not everyone has the same experience...
 
Claven2 said:
It's not NRA fair. It's "good" Read the definitions.



Assuming there are no broken parts requiring replacement - that rifle is NRA "good". That is the difference between "good" and "fair".
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My mistake on calling it fair, you are correct, it grades NRA good.
 
I removed about 30 patches or rust and wore out three copper brushes then gave up. The bore is quite frosty and if I keep working I know I will eventually find pitting. The rifle does not meet the definition of good IMHO.

Look at the cross section of people here with different opinions. I know it is difficult based on a few photo's - it's really subjective - however this is an issue we always come across with every EE purchase - especially with milsurps we need to be on our toes with our definitions and explanations.

Some folks just don't care
Some of us really care
 
joe n said:
With that, are there any tips on how to take good pics of the bore?
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weaselsrippedmyflesh said:
How are you guys taking these clear pictures of the bore? Is there a trick?
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God knows I need help with this as well.

That bore is certainly not "Mint" condition IMO. It looks fair to good condition to me but if you were paying for a mint bore I would either get a partial refund or get an exchange.
 
To take a decent pic of the bore, I find it helps to put a white card into the chamber, resting on the open bolt. This gives a nice diffuse light.
Just light up the card, using macro, or the 'flower' setting no one seems to know how to use, focus on something that is approximately the distance you want to shoot inside the barrel.
With a first stage hold on the shutter button, hold that focus, and point it into the bore.
Take many pics. One will look good.
 
I would be mad as hell if I bought that rifle after being told that it was "Excellent - As New" & "Mint+++++". I don't know much about the NRA rating system, but in my rating system that bore & crown would be fair to poor. Since the pictures are only showing the muzzle & bore we can't rate the rest of the rifle.
 
I find, unless you a target shooter with a match grade rifle, you don't need to go crazy on cleaning your milsurp's bore. All of my rifles have pitting in the bore and probably some gunk I couldn't get out but that is just a fact of life with a military rifle.

I clean my bore with some hoppes # 9 and alternate between wet and dry patches until they come out nearly clean. I know that my bore is as clean as I can reasonably get it so all is well. Last is a simple oil covered patch to protect the bore until range time.
 
perhaps there should be a rating, for each type of gun, for example a rating for lee's, and a different rating for lets say mausers, etc...etc..,this could eliminate the different variations in bore types. or rather then different ratings, maybe simply notes on what to look for in each type of rifle...i don't know how plausible that actually is, but it's an idea.
 
Riflechair said:
This is the bore of a rifle that was defined to me as "Excellent - As New" & "Mint+++++".

bore3.jpg
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I hope that isn't the Mosin sniper rifle you just bought recently.:eek:
 
FWIW, we can argue all day about whether it is "fair" or "good" (the NRA says the difference is the presence of broken parts - and you haven't told us this yet or not). The fact is, the NRA rating system doesn't rate the bore specifically - it rates the whole rifle. Adapting it to just describe the bore isn;t what was ever intended when that rating system was created.

Nevertheless, we can all agree it is neither mint nor excellent. Now that that is sorted, I suggest you take it up with the seller, if you can. Or don't. Maybe you are still happy with what you paid - only you can decide that.
 
That is the worst part of buying online to me. I bought an old Winchester last year and the seller said, " Bore looks okay, didn't try to clean it, should clean up." That should have set off the alarm bells. After a good scrubbing the bore looked like the inside of a smokestack and a trip to the range showed EVERY SHOT hit the target keyholed. Live and learn. Personally I would never sell a rifle with a dirty bore but it worked out as the rifle had nice stocks and I rebuilt another parts gun into a very nice Winchester.
 
If you can't get your money back, and I know this is a kick in the balls, but from the pic of the bore near the chamber the rifling seams decent, would a counter-bore job fix her up? I hate counter-bored Nagants, however that muzzle is terrible, and I doubt she'll ever be accurate. I'd rate that barrel "fair" at best. If it's a 91/30 there is tons of barrel length, so velocity loss on a counter-bored barrel should be non existent.
 
Riflechair said:
I removed about 30 patches or rust and wore out three copper brushes then gave up.
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What you need is a good foaming bore cleaner. I find it saves me a good deal of effort, and that means fewer rod passes through the bore.

I would also recommend having a counter-bore done, or at least a re-crown. The bore itself doesn't look all that bad as the muzzle does.
 
Hi-Standard said:
If you can't get your money back, and I know this is a kick in the balls, but from the pic of the bore near the chamber the rifling seams decent, would a counter-bore job fix her up? I hate counter-bored Nagants, however that muzzle is terrible, and I doubt she'll ever be accurate.
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You might be surprised in the accuracy dept.
 
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