CCI Standard Velocity vs CCI Blazers

ckd07 said:
Do you find any loss in accuracy with your modified rounds? I've never shot gophers so excuse my ignorance but they're a pest as I understand. Are there huge numbers of them where you hunt?
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Hey ckd07-I'd done load testing with my CZ452 Varmint (22LR) before I bought the die kit, so I had a sense of what the gun liked already. The goal was to find a high-velocity (factory) load it shot well, so I bought every time I could get my hands on, and a few since. The only high velocity ammo that showed promise (1/2"-3/4" @ 50 yards) was CCI Blazer, but that ammo is simply a solid point. I can assure you it works, but not the bang/flop proposition it is when the rounds are modified wth the die.

Accuracy loss? When I got the kit, I took the best shooters from the initial load testing (HV and SV), added hollow-points...and brought both modified and unmodified ammo to the range. Long story longer, the Waltz'd ammo either shot the same, or slightly better. Effects were almost 17HMR-like, if the large-frozen-carrot test is any indication.

Huge numbers? Well, yes..there can be. The last trip (2018) saw lower numbers but the trip before that? Seems like you could shoot 300-400+ in an afternoon...go back to the same spot the next day, and it was like you were never there. lol Shoot another 300-400, repeat. On the second last trip with the big #s, we set-out to see how many we could shoot/collect in an hour, which turned-out to be about 60 minutes of shooting/30 minutes of collecting. The total was 135 between my buddy and I. We wanted a record/photo to remind ourselves of how good it can be..and maybe offer some proof to our varmint-hunting buddies back home who might be skeptical. Having done this once...we felt no temptation to do it again. If you've been around dead gophers, you probably know what I'm talking about.

Anyhow, they can be especially bad...and are inclined to be in the spots we're fortunate enough to have. The property owners welcome us, and even call me in the spring with an update on what they're seeing. They have no time for gophers, and are mindful of the fact that more gophers=more badgers, and those things can dig some seriously large holes. Not great if you have a working cattle ranch or worse yet, you're a horse breeder. I've been told cows tend to avoid these large holes pretty well, but horses are a bit more playful.

PKg7peb.jpg
 
.22LRGUY said:
Hey ckd07-I'd done load testing with my CZ452 Varmint (22LR) before I bought the die kit, so I had a sense of what the gun liked already. The goal was to find a high-velocity (factory) load it shot well, so I bought every time I could get my hands on, and a few since. The only high velocity ammo that showed promise (1/2"-3/4" @ 50 yards) was CCI Blazer, but that ammo is simply a solid point. I can assure you it works, but not the bang/flop proposition it is when the rounds are modified wth the die.

Accuracy loss? When I got the kit, I took the best shooters from the initial load testing (HV and SV), added hollow-points...and brought both modified and unmodified ammo to the range. Long story longer, the Waltz'd ammo either shot the same, or slightly better. Effects were almost 17HMR-like, if the large-frozen-carrot test is any indication.

Huge numbers? Well, yes..there can be. The last trip (2018) saw lower numbers but the trip before that? Seems like you could shoot 300-400+ in an afternoon...go back to the same spot the next day, and it was like you were never there. lol Shoot another 300-400, repeat. On the second last trip with the big #s, we set-out to see how many we could shoot/collect in an hour, which turned-out to be about 60 minutes of shooting/30 minutes of collecting. The total was 135 between my buddy and I. We wanted a record/photo to remind ourselves of how good it can be..and maybe offer some proof to our varmint-hunting buddies back home who might be skeptical. Having done this once...we felt no temptation to do it again. If you've been around dead gophers, you probably know what I'm talking about.

Anyhow, they can be especially bad...and are inclined to be in the spots we're fortunate enough to have. The property owners welcome us, and even call me in the spring with an update on what they're seeing. They have no time for gophers, and are mindful of the fact that more gophers=more badgers, and those things can dig some seriously large holes. Not great if you have a working cattle ranch or worse yet, you're a horse breeder. I've been told cows tend to avoid these large holes pretty well, but horses are a bit more playful.

PKg7peb.jpg
Click to expand...

Have you tried CCI Stingers? They shoot really well and really flat in my both m Rifles; the longer brass and bullet shape feels like they are exactly right for the chamber, and I have shot some very tight groups, and the odd five shot group will be one ragged hole at 100.
 
Stingers work in CZ bolt action .22LR rifles. CZ USA's FAQ's has the following caveat:

Q: “Can I shoot CCI Stingers or long-for-chambering Sub-Sonic ammo in my CZ?”
A: Our 22 LR rifles are built to tight tolerances for increased accuracy, and our chamber is what other manufacturers might refer to as a ‘Match’ chamber. The tight tolerances mean overly long cartridges may not fit, so Stingers and some large sub-sonic loads will be too long to allow the bolt to close with ease."
h t t p s://cz-usa.com/support/faq/
 
grauhanen said:
Stingers work in CZ bolt action .22LR rifles. CZ USA's FAQ's has the following caveat:

Q: “Can I shoot CCI Stingers or long-for-chambering Sub-Sonic ammo in my CZ?”
A: Our 22 LR rifles are built to tight tolerances for increased accuracy, and our chamber is what other manufacturers might refer to as a ‘Match’ chamber. The tight tolerances mean overly long cartridges may not fit, so Stingers and some large sub-sonic loads will be too long to allow the bolt to close with ease."
h t t p s://cz-usa.com/support/faq/
Click to expand...

They definitely work in the one I tried but they are correct about the "close with ease" part. I prefer a nice easy close on a bolt. I have other guns for Stingers.
 
skwerl said:
Couldn't chamber Stingers in my MTR , don't know if I'd shoot out of a gun that I liked .
Click to expand...

There could be a reason I never tried them.. :) I have a friend who swears by them in his BRNO 2E, but I've never tried them in either of my CZs. Looks like it'll stay that way too. I do find some loads (like the Blazers the gun DOES like) do feel like a tighter fit.
 
CCI SV and Blazer are pretty close when running Standard velocity (1070) versus Blazer (1250) although I have not run them over the Chrony.
Current costs at a LGS is $50 versus $41 respectively although cheaper prices are advertised occasionally.
Both suffer from consistency and while CCI MiniMags were mentioned they suffer the same malaise while being more expensive.
As with the MiniMags, one of my 10/22's will shoot RN into about 2" at 100 yards versus the HP's which were 6"+. These results might change the next time out without explanation.
Testing for accuracy is not everything . . . it is the only thing.
For gophers they may not know the difference but neither does the paper targets . . . the difference is in the mind of the shooter!
Sunday might be a good chance to run both through the Coopers and see it they know the difference.
 
.22LRGUY said:
Hey ckd07-I'd done load testing with my CZ452 Varmint (22LR) before I bought the die kit, so I had a sense of what the gun liked already. The goal was to find a high-velocity (factory) load it shot well, so I bought every time I could get my hands on, and a few since. The only high velocity ammo that showed promise (1/2"-3/4" @ 50 yards) was CCI Blazer, but that ammo is simply a solid point. I can assure you it works, but not the bang/flop proposition it is when the rounds are modified wth the die.

Accuracy loss? When I got the kit, I took the best shooters from the initial load testing (HV and SV), added hollow-points...and brought both modified and unmodified ammo to the range. Long story longer, the Waltz'd ammo either shot the same, or slightly better. Effects were almost 17HMR-like, if the large-frozen-carrot test is any indication.

Huge numbers? Well, yes..there can be. The last trip (2018) saw lower numbers but the trip before that? Seems like you could shoot 300-400+ in an afternoon...go back to the same spot the next day, and it was like you were never there. lol Shoot another 300-400, repeat. On the second last trip with the big #s, we set-out to see how many we could shoot/collect in an hour, which turned-out to be about 60 minutes of shooting/30 minutes of collecting. The total was 135 between my buddy and I. We wanted a record/photo to remind ourselves of how good it can be..and maybe offer some proof to our varmint-hunting buddies back home who might be skeptical. Having done this once...we felt no temptation to do it again. If you've been around dead gophers, you probably know what I'm talking about.

Anyhow, they can be especially bad...and are inclined to be in the spots we're fortunate enough to have. The property owners welcome us, and even call me in the spring with an update on what they're seeing. They have no time for gophers, and are mindful of the fact that more gophers=more badgers, and those things can dig some seriously large holes. Not great if you have a working cattle ranch or worse yet, you're a horse breeder. I've been told cows tend to avoid these large holes pretty well, but horses are a bit more playful.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the details. Damn, that's an infestation! Didn't realize they were such an issue in Ontario. I think I need to become friends with some farmers and see if they need assistance with rodent control because that looks like a good day out.
 
skwerl said:
Couldn't chamber Stingers in my MTR , don't know if I'd shoot out of a gun that I liked .
Click to expand...

The MTR .22LR chamber is not the same as other CZ .22LR chambers. It's CZ's "match" chamber, which has smaller dimensions than those in other .22LR CZ bolt action firearms.

CCI Stingers should chamber without issue in .22LR rifles made to SAAMI specifications. CZ makes its .22LR rifles to CIP specifications, which are different. The chart shown below is from CZ.

 
.22LRGUY said:
^yep. :) This is the second time today I've posted an mentioned gophers (what I was supposed to be doing the first week of June :( ....f***in' Covid)..but CCI Blazers through my 452 Varmint=my gopher-slayer of choice. I run mine through a Waltz die to create a massive hollow-point. Smacks them hard with an audible "pop". Rearranges them pretty good too. Photos on request. :p
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Tee-Hee! ;) Gotta love the plop when ye hit the buggers in the wet spot. Me best gopher missions were done using a Ruger 10/22 that I tweeked
back in the late 80's. Between meself & me buddy, we cleaned out a nice portion of gophers in the Water Valley, Big hill Springs & Bottrell areas of AB.
Our ammo of choice back then was Rem Yellow Jackets. Now them buggers make a good plop and shoot straight in a rifle that likes 'em.

The fields we worked then were literally moving with gophers. Final combined round count after 2 weeks of daily gopher bombing worked out to
27,000 rounds expended and those fields were a hummin' by the end of each day fer sure. A few batches of centerfire loads were used as well
ranging from .17 Rem (The ultimate gopher vaporizer.) on up through to 45-70, 458 Win and 12 ga. in spots that had hilly sections to stop the projectiles.

Fook me, I gotta get back to Alberta again fer some proper good times. f:P:
 
grauhanen said:
Stingers work in CZ bolt action .22LR rifles. CZ USA's FAQ's has the following caveat:

Q: “Can I shoot CCI Stingers or long-for-chambering Sub-Sonic ammo in my CZ?”
A: Our 22 LR rifles are built to tight tolerances for increased accuracy, and our chamber is what other manufacturers might refer to as a ‘Match’ chamber. The tight tolerances mean overly long cartridges may not fit, so Stingers and some large sub-sonic loads will be too long to allow the bolt to close with ease."
h t t p s://cz-usa.com/support/faq/
Click to expand...

This is no lie. I tried some yesterday; accuracy was nothing to wright home about; and every round, I had to wack the bolt with my palm to get them in the chamber.
 
.22LRGUY said:
There could be a reason I never tried them.. :) I have a friend who swears by them in his BRNO 2E, but I've never tried them in either of my CZs. Looks like it'll stay that way too. I do find some loads (like the Blazers the gun DOES like) do feel like a tighter fit.
Click to expand...

I have not tried them in my Brno 2, only the 455.
 
Meroh said:
This is no lie. I tried some yesterday; accuracy was nothing to wright home about;
Click to expand...

You have to consider twist rates too... I think the Stingers are just too fast for standard off the shelf barrels.
My CZ 457 shoots CCI Mini Mags very well, .5" group at 50 yards. Stingers, 3-4".

The Mini Mags are my choice for .22 gopher pills..

3hKPuXL.jpg
 
667 said:
You have to consider twist rates too... I think the Stingers are just too fast for standard off the shelf barrels.
My CZ 457 shoots CCI Mini Mags very well, .5" group at 50 yards. Stingers, 3-4".
Click to expand...

The problem with Stingers is not the standard 1:16 twist of .22LR barrels. The reputation Stingers have for poor accuracy is well-earned. They simply are not accurate.
 
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