CCW Recommendations. Thinking HK Tactical Compact in .45

i would recommend the p7m8 its a great little gun u will impressed with it the hk 45's are a bit thick for me still awesome though u might have to wear some baggy clothing
 
torontogunguy said:
Rick:
I am impressed by your math skills man. No matter how hard I tried I just could NOT get my sliderule to come up with .0000024%.
The computer you wrote your post on probably has a calculator available as part of the operating system. Very cool, no slide rule required. I used StatDisk, which is what I use for statistical analysis on GIS projects, but they're all about the same. Slide rules are mostly useful for confusing those under 50 years old these days.

Of course, if you feel the statistical probability that using handloads will become an issue in a trial after a defensive shooting is in fact different, then by all means provide your own figures.

But from where I'm standing, I'm still looking at a grand total of THREE incidents over a 25 year period in the US. I note that you haven't been able to add to the list of known occurances...
 
torontogunguy said:
Rick:
I am impressed by your math skills man. No matter how hard I tried I just could NOT get my sliderule to come up with .0000024%.

Could not find the calculator built into the computer here. But during my search I did locate a non-functional pencil sharpener and a remote control cup holder that comes out when you push a little button on it. All on my desktop computer!
 
It's probably already been mentioned in this thread but If you do anything other than stand straight up, it will be obvious that you're packing. Your shirt can get hung up on it and you would never know. Also bad for weapon retention if it ever comes down to that. Uncomfortable to sit with one, and your gun will stick out if you sit on an open backed chair like in a restaurant for example. Others also warn about potential injury to your back should you ever fall backwards on your pistol, but that alone isn't really a factor for me.
 
Clead said:
So CCW notwithstanding, is a good magwell a must-have on a combat-oriented pistol? Do contractors and others who may have to depend on pistols have magwells on theirs?

No, and no. Double-stack mags go in easily enough, and the pistol is not a primary weapon anyway. For that matter, a single-stack 1911 mag goes in just fine with practice. It's not like you'll be standing in the open while changing a mag, so saving .05 of a second, if that, doesn't matter.
 
Whyveear said:
It's probably already been mentioned in this thread but If you do anything other than stand straight up, it will be obvious that you're packing.
I don't agree with that, and I just did a little 30 second song and dance in front of a mirror. If I'm wearing a vest or jacket, no. If it's a small pistol, no. If it's a full frame job like a Browning Hi-Power and nothing other than a light shirt and I decide to do some toe-touching exercises, yes.

My take on that is it depends on the size of the firearm and how you dress. And no matter how you carry, if you choose concealed carry over open carry, you have to dress with how you're carrying in mind.

Your shirt can get hung up on it and you would never know.
My shirt can get hung up on my IWB tuckable and I'll never know. I can't see the small of my back, but then again I don't run around lifting my right arm, twisting my torso, and peering under my armpit at where I carry at 4 o'clock, either. I think the issue is practice, no matter how you choose to carry.

Also bad for weapon retention if it ever comes down to that.
I think I'd prefer an assailant to have to get right through me or completely spin me around, rather than just reach down to my waist while we were grappling if the issue were strictly retention. From behind, a waist carry presents a more natural grasp for a snatch than a SOB flat against your back. That said, if I was truly concerned about retention, I'd have a holster with at the very least a thumbbreak snap rather than nothing at all - no matter how I carried.

Uncomfortable to sit with one, and your gun will stick out if you sit on an open backed chair like in a restaurant for example.
I carried SOB for a while, and didn't have any problem whatsoever with comfort - or at least, no more than with IWB and seat belts, etc.

What kind of a holster were you carrying SOB with that you found to be uncomfortable? Did you try different holsters after the first didn't work?

I gave up on SOB because shoulder injuries have come back to haunt me and I simply can't easily reach back with my arms any more in the manner required by a SOB carry. So it was a comfort issue, but different reasons.

Others also warn about potential injury to your back should you ever fall backwards on your pistol, but that alone isn't really a factor for me.
Yes, I've heard that, but I put that one right up there with "if you carry a gun, it will only be taken from you and used against you.

Personal injury? Sure it happens, but some people have their firearms taken from them and used against them as well. Unless I am wrong, the probability of either happening is pretty remote at best.

As a ski patroller, I ski with a patrol vest that has a back pocket for gear in what amounts to "SOB" - I carry my 'biners, ATC, and tightly wound self rescue rope back there. All of us do. Lots of skiiers ski with fanny packs holding water bottles, booze, cell phones, etc. All kinds of hard objects in there. I do occassionally fall, as all skiers do. When skiers fall, they fall one hell of a lot faster than somebody footborn walking or even running. And if they're in moguls at the time, more often than not they get launched and come down from a lot higher than someone falling on the street. Then you have road cyclists with water bottles tucked behind them - they fall once in a while as well. We do med support to some bike races, and treat those who go down.

I have never treated or heard of an injury where a skier or cyclist received a back injury from falling on small objects carried in the small of their back. I have no doubt it happens on rare occasions, but if I was worried about all the rare "what ifs", I'd never carry a firearm in the first place.

And if not SOB, where is safer? Crossdraw or strong side? UH OH. Now we have hard objects next to our spleen and liver - what happens if we fall on those? We rupture our spleen or liver and possibly bleed to death? How about a broken lower rib and a punctured lung.

SOB is not necessarily a bad idea. Like every other carry method, it has its' pros and cons. But everyone is different in body shape, how they dress, what they carry, etc. All people can really do is try it for themselves and see how it works out for them personally. Most will probably find something other than SOB preferable, but it is a valid option.
 
Rick said:
I don't agree with that, and I just did a little 30 second song and dance in front of a mirror. If I'm wearing a vest or jacket, no. If it's a small pistol, no. If it's a full frame job like a Browning Hi-Power and nothing other than a light shirt and I decide to do some toe-touching exercises, yes.
Even slightly bending at the waist will do it. It's just the way it is, but obviously a more significant cover garment deals with the problem

My shirt can get hung up on my IWB tuckable and I'll never know. I can't see the small of my back, but then again I don't run around lifting my right arm, twisting my torso, and peering under my armpit at where I carry at 4 o'clock, either. I think the issue is practice, no matter how you choose to carry.
Again, because of it's position, and how a body bends at the waist, a shirt is more likely to get hung up SOB. If you bend side to side, which most people don't do on a regular basis, you would have the same problem at 4:00.

I carried SOB for a while, and didn't have any problem whatsoever with comfort - or at least, no more than with IWB and seat belts, etc.
You are in the minority and of course my comments were generally speaking. Most find sitting against something to be uncomfortable.

Personal injury? Sure it happens, but some people have their firearms taken from them and used against them as well. Unless I am wrong, the probability of either happening is pretty remote at best.
I agree.

I have never treated or heard of an injury where a skier or cyclist received a back injury from falling on small objects carried in the small of their back. I have no doubt it happens on rare occasions, but if I was worried about all the rare "what ifs", I'd never carry a firearm in the first place.
The concern is over a hard metal object being carried tightly against the back and falling directly on it. It's not a water bottle.

And if not SOB, where is safer? Crossdraw or strong side? UH OH. Now we have hard objects next to our spleen and liver - what happens if we fall on those? We rupture our spleen or liver and possibly bleed to death? How about a broken lower rib and a punctured lung.
Again, we're talking about SOB where the spine is not well protected and even less when falling backwards and the person bends at the waist further exposing the spine. But like I said, I'm not worried about it.

The reason why I said it was a bad idea is because I was just quickly getting to the point. It was a general comment. Most newb CCWers imagine SOB as being a good idea but then they get over it when they consider the different factors.
 
Last edited:
Whyveear said:
Even slightly bending at the waist will do it. It's just the way it is, but obviously a more significant cover garment deals with the problem
What were you carrying SOB that led you to that observation? It wasn't my experience, so perhaps it is the difference in what handgun you were carrying, and possibly the holster as well.

Again, because of it's position, and how a body bends at the waist, a shirt is more likely to get hung up SOB.
Again, not my experience; same comment as above.

The concern is over a hard metal object being carried tightly against the back and falling directly on it. It's not a water bottle.
I can guarantee you that a nalgene water flask is sufficiently hard, AND about three times the width of any handgun. Fall on that - invariably at a much higher velocity than a footborne person carrying SOB - and if the theory of spine injury is true, there is going to be considerably more displacement of the lumbar spine than any handgun is ever going to do. I can also guarantee you that 'biners and ATC's are made out of very hard metal and hard enough in their own right. You may think the spine is unprotected, but it has one hell of a lot more protection than the spleen and liver have. Lumbar spine injuries are relatively rare compared to cervical spine injuries, and most are due to compression, not impact.

The reason why I said it was a bad idea is because I was just quickly getting to the point. It was a general comment. Most newb CCWers imagine SOB as being a good idea but then they get over it when they consider the different factors.
I've felt that most people new to CCW seem attracted to the way cool shoulder holsters - too much James Bond and police shows perhaps. At any rate, SOB is a viable option, as are shoulder holsters, but I suspect most people eventually find IWB simply works best.

That's why so many of us have a big box of unused holsters sitting in the house somewhere. Maybe the world needs a holster library - check it out, try it for a few weeks, bring it back.
 
Back
Top Bottom