CDP Atts
- Thread starter stormbringer
- Start date
stormbringer
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- S.W. Ontario
My schedule is clear as well.
I was going to go.
However as a result of the ATT to be shown at the door requirment there is no way on this planet I would be caught dead there. I would encourage any and all other shooters to boycott this particular match as well.
We simply cannot let ANYONE get away with this sort of action.
This sort of "policy" feeds right into the hands of the CFO and the Antis...
They would LOVE to have us doing their work for them which is exactly what this is.
I was going to go.
However as a result of the ATT to be shown at the door requirment there is no way on this planet I would be caught dead there. I would encourage any and all other shooters to boycott this particular match as well.
We simply cannot let ANYONE get away with this sort of action.
This sort of "policy" feeds right into the hands of the CFO and the Antis...
They would LOVE to have us doing their work for them which is exactly what this is.
I think that's a bit of a stretch. I'll be there and I don't support the Antis one bit.
stormbringer
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- S.W. Ontario
By attending you are saying that it is JUST FINE for someone to want to inspect your ATT.
The ATT is a STUPID CONCEPT in the first place that should not exist as it is a rubber stamp.
The very idea of ANYONE checking on it for a match IS PLAYING right into their hands.
You may not support the antis but by attending and letting this sort of crap happen you are making it ACCEPTABLE.
It is patently not acceptable..........
Thus it should be boycotted to send a message.
The ATT is a STUPID CONCEPT in the first place that should not exist as it is a rubber stamp.
The very idea of ANYONE checking on it for a match IS PLAYING right into their hands.
You may not support the antis but by attending and letting this sort of crap happen you are making it ACCEPTABLE.
It is patently not acceptable..........
Thus it should be boycotted to send a message.
forget the show or no show thing,
BUT does the club, it's board of directors and the match directors know what a can of worms legally they are opening by requiring you to show your ATT and/or Reg. Cert ?
what liability are the match directors goign to offer those that are checking documents if they knowingly do not report a firearms offence ? the offence being transporting a restricted firearm without permit ?? are RCMP members going to be standing by with the cuffs ready ??
as a canadian it is or legal and moral duty to report all criminal activity, no matter how small..... should they just dial 911 and get the ERT team out ?
BUT does the club, it's board of directors and the match directors know what a can of worms legally they are opening by requiring you to show your ATT and/or Reg. Cert ?
what liability are the match directors goign to offer those that are checking documents if they knowingly do not report a firearms offence ? the offence being transporting a restricted firearm without permit ?? are RCMP members going to be standing by with the cuffs ready ??
as a canadian it is or legal and moral duty to report all criminal activity, no matter how small..... should they just dial 911 and get the ERT team out ?
stormbringer
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- S.W. Ontario
Of course it is MUCH...........strike that HUGELY different.
The Clubs in Ontario administering the ATTs for their members is MANDATED by the CFO.
Without the clubs doing it there might be NO ATTs what so ever.
What we have here from what I have gathered is ONE MAN
ONE INDIVIDUAL......
Who has determined that he wants to check on other peoples ATTs of his own accord
The Club did not say that he should do it (from what I have read).
IT is NOT (thank god) a requiment from CSSA.
This is straight up WRONG.
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No offense Stormy, but how is that different at a club which requires you to show a membership card at all times? If you forget your card, do the rules say you are allowed to shoot?
I agree that ATT's are a stupid thing, yet it IS the law. I think that the speed limit is better as a suggestion than a enforcable travel speed, yet it is the law as well.
A message to whom? The shooting community?
"I won't play cause they want me to show a piece of paper that I find morally objectionable and have no legal obligation of showing." You just labelled pretty much everything from Bill C-68 and prior...
Well, your stance also works into their hands as anti's will use and twist anything. Example: Your refusal to show a piece of paper to prove you are legally transporting a handgun.
Heaven forbid that McGuinty's jackboots are there legally checking everyone that tickles their fancy. I'm sure that he would love to have any shooter be 'illegal' and still be allowed to compete. If you don't think that there will be some outside people watching the first CDP match then you aren't paranoid enough.
Anti's consider 'action shooting sports' as an unacceptable use of firearms anyways. IPSC, IDPA, PPC, etc is all 'scary unsafe uses of a firearm" to them.
Then take it up with the one man. His contact info is on the sheet. Not like you cannot vent and complain directly to him. If you don't like the requirements, then I urge you to not attend and make sure you tell him so and the reasons, in a calm and collected way.
Others will not have "sufficient" issue with displaying an ATT and will attend because they want to.
so my question still stands,
will the police be called as is required by law if someone does not have an ATT in his or her possesion ??
is the club prepared to defend the people checking the papers in a court of law if they are arrested for not reporting a firearms act violation and/or a criminalcode violation ?
will the police be called as is required by law if someone does not have an ATT in his or her possesion ??
is the club prepared to defend the people checking the papers in a court of law if they are arrested for not reporting a firearms act violation and/or a criminalcode violation ?
stormbringer
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- S.W. Ontario
That would be a CLUB rule voted by the CLUB membership.
This is a case of ONE individual making up things as he goes along.
BTW>..I would not attend a match at a club nor would I be a member of a club with a rule to check ATTs as I find it very QUISLINGISH (new word).
Do you run around with a radar gun pulling over people who are speeding BECAUSE IT IS THE LAW??
Yes I did and I will continue to fight these injustices. However it is VERY HARD to do it when gun owners take it upon THEMSELVES to start to try and enforce the laws on a whim.
WOW! Just wow! Do you not see the problem in what you just said? I refuse to show my PAPERS to an INDIVIDUAL who has ZERO RIGHT to see it. HAS ZERO POWER TO DEMAND IT!
The FACT that I am there and am a legal gun ower means that DEFACTO I must have an ATT.
If the POLICE want to waste resources on such a concept to be proven wasteful that would be up to them.
Again that is NOT what is happening here.
We have ONE MAN who has decided that HE is the law..
No ####!
But what is FAR FAR scarier is we now have our own who think that they can take what powers they want and make up what rules they want and we will all go along WILLINGLY!
Not that it matters now...........I have been "Officially" disinvited to this little party. Which of course tempts me all the more to show up and be shown the door.....
stormbringer
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- S.W. Ontario
Oh trust me My good man I have taken it up with the individual.
Which is how I got disinvited.
stormbringer
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- S.W. Ontario
On behalf of the CSSA and CDP I am pleased to post for the first officially sanctioned CDP Match.
As from Mr. D. Burke, CDP National Coordinator.
Did you mean www.canadiandefensivepistol.org as .com doesn't work for me but .org does?
Steve David
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Oshawa, Ontario
I spoke to Dave Burke today and he informed me that in fact it is Sharon and the CSSA who are requesting this because of the high attendance of non Sharon members. Although I do not agree with you being disinvited, you are very closed minded on this issue Storm and it really is not a big deal considering you are required by law to carry your ATT while transporting your firearms. This is why I stay away from big get togethers like this and just run it in house. For the record Storm if you are ever in the area, you can come shoot with us at my club and I will not ask for your ATT and I am sure you will enjoy yourself.
stormbringer
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- S.W. Ontario
Of course I am close minded about this.
It is a black and white issue in my mind.
RIGHT versus WRONG.
There has been ZERO indication that this is a Sharron Club request and evidence presented that they do not check ATTs at IPSC matches.
I have put forth an "OFFICIAL" request to CSSA for them to either confirm or deny what the stance of CSSA is on this matter and I wait for a reply on bated (or is it baited) breath.
Yes I am required by law to carry my ATT when I am transporting my restricted and Prohibitted firearms. In fact I happen to carry SEVERAL copies so I am never wanting.
Any Police officer (with just cause) can inspect my ATT.
However that is simply not the case. CSSA should not demand my ATT, SHARON SHOULD NOT (but could if they wanted) demand my ATT.
The ONLY one that can inspect my ATT is my club handgun chairman (who issues it) and the Police.
Once we start running around checking on our own...just where are we?
Should they not ask to see my PAL so they can know that my ATT is in fact valid? (crap better not give HIM more ideas).
Thus it is a VERY big deal. What we have here is a clear abuse of the system.
Just like I rail against Walmart wanting to copy my PAL number when you buy ammo(there is no legal requirment ) so I do not buy my ammo there. It is WRONG.
If we do not have the courage to stand up for what is right and wrong SPECIALLY when it is a wrong perpetrated by our so called "friends" then we might as well give up now.
(oh and thanks for the invite........I just might take you up on it some time).
It is a black and white issue in my mind.
RIGHT versus WRONG.
There has been ZERO indication that this is a Sharron Club request and evidence presented that they do not check ATTs at IPSC matches.
I have put forth an "OFFICIAL" request to CSSA for them to either confirm or deny what the stance of CSSA is on this matter and I wait for a reply on bated (or is it baited) breath.
Yes I am required by law to carry my ATT when I am transporting my restricted and Prohibitted firearms. In fact I happen to carry SEVERAL copies so I am never wanting.
Any Police officer (with just cause) can inspect my ATT.
However that is simply not the case. CSSA should not demand my ATT, SHARON SHOULD NOT (but could if they wanted) demand my ATT.
The ONLY one that can inspect my ATT is my club handgun chairman (who issues it) and the Police.
Once we start running around checking on our own...just where are we?
Should they not ask to see my PAL so they can know that my ATT is in fact valid? (crap better not give HIM more ideas).
Thus it is a VERY big deal. What we have here is a clear abuse of the system.
Just like I rail against Walmart wanting to copy my PAL number when you buy ammo(there is no legal requirment ) so I do not buy my ammo there. It is WRONG.
If we do not have the courage to stand up for what is right and wrong SPECIALLY when it is a wrong perpetrated by our so called "friends" then we might as well give up now.
(oh and thanks for the invite........I just might take you up on it some time).
if its because of a high attendance of non Sharon members. then why are we not asked to show the att at other shooting matches im sure that there more shooter from other club shooting an IPSC match then there are club members
