Hi, anyone uses CFE 223 for 308 WIN hunting load? I am thinking about trying it as it's ball powder which meters better. However, the only thing worries me is the temp. sensitive nature as I read everywhere because I intend to use 308 WIN outdoor hunting. How true is it and are there any numbers backing up those temp. sensitive claims as I couldn't find any even though so many places talking about it as absolute truth. Thanks
CFE 223 for 308 win hunting load, temp concern???
- Thread starter luckey
- Start date
I use a lot of ball powder and work up my deer hunting loads at the approximate temp they would be used and never had a problem. Our American military ammunition uses ball powders for uniformity in loading their ammunition. Also when the internal volume case capacity varies the chamber pressure will also vary, meaning do you weigh or check the H2O capacity of each case.
Bottom line, when you are standing on your hind legs shooting at a running deer "temp sensitivity" of the powder means nothing. If your using Lapua brass and shooting in long range F-Class competition the temp sensitivity of the powder would mean somthing. (and so would drinking too much coffee) Most of my hunting was done far at less than 100 yards and I never saw any difference no matter what type powder I used. But if your hunting in wide open country past 300 yards it might make a difference.
Below is a chart showing "FPS per degree F" change
Below are links to discussions on temp sensitivity
http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showthread.php?11838-CFE223-and-temperature-sensitivity
http://www.65creedmoor.com/?topic=2208.msg29499#msg29499http://i955.photobucket.com/albums/ae36/NugginFutz/Burn%20rates%20and%20Temp%20Stability_zpswibjfa9y.jpg
http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showthread.php?11196-Powder-Burn-Rates-and-Temp-Sensitivity
Below is the case weight variations for the different brands of .223 cases. So even if you were using a temperature stable powder the Remington and Winchester cases the variation in case capacity would cause a larger variation in chamber pressure and velocity. So again case uniformity/case capacity can mean as much as the powder temp sensitivity.
Edit, American 7.62 sniper ammunition below was loaded with the double base powder RL-15 and in the heat of Iraq and Afghanistan did not work well.
"Cartridge, Caliber 7.62mm, NATO, Ball, Special, M118LR (United States): 175-grain 7.62×51mm NATO Match-grade round specifically designed for long-range sniping. It uses a 175-grain Sierra Match King Hollow Point Boat Tail bullet. Produced at Lake City Army Ammunition Plant. The propellant's noticeable muzzle flash and temperature sensitivity led to the development of the MK 316 MOD 0 for Special Operations use."
Below is the new MK 316 MOD 0 7.62 round and was loaded with the single base powder IMR-4064.
"Cartridge, Caliber 7.62mm Special Ball, Long Range, MK 316 MOD 0 (United States): A 175-grain round specifically designed for long-range sniping consisting of Sierra MatchKing Hollow Point Boat Tail projectiles, Federal Cartridge Company match cartridge cases and Gold Medal Match primers. The Propellant has been verified as IMR 4064 (per NSN 1305-01-567-6944 and Federal Cartridge Company Contract/Order Number N0016408DJN28 and has a charge weight per the specs of 41.7."
Bottom line, when you are standing on your hind legs shooting at a running deer "temp sensitivity" of the powder means nothing. If your using Lapua brass and shooting in long range F-Class competition the temp sensitivity of the powder would mean somthing. (and so would drinking too much coffee) Most of my hunting was done far at less than 100 yards and I never saw any difference no matter what type powder I used. But if your hunting in wide open country past 300 yards it might make a difference.
Below is a chart showing "FPS per degree F" change
Below are links to discussions on temp sensitivity
http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showthread.php?11838-CFE223-and-temperature-sensitivity
http://www.65creedmoor.com/?topic=2208.msg29499#msg29499http://i955.photobucket.com/albums/ae36/NugginFutz/Burn%20rates%20and%20Temp%20Stability_zpswibjfa9y.jpg
http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showthread.php?11196-Powder-Burn-Rates-and-Temp-Sensitivity
Below is the case weight variations for the different brands of .223 cases. So even if you were using a temperature stable powder the Remington and Winchester cases the variation in case capacity would cause a larger variation in chamber pressure and velocity. So again case uniformity/case capacity can mean as much as the powder temp sensitivity.
Edit, American 7.62 sniper ammunition below was loaded with the double base powder RL-15 and in the heat of Iraq and Afghanistan did not work well.
"Cartridge, Caliber 7.62mm, NATO, Ball, Special, M118LR (United States): 175-grain 7.62×51mm NATO Match-grade round specifically designed for long-range sniping. It uses a 175-grain Sierra Match King Hollow Point Boat Tail bullet. Produced at Lake City Army Ammunition Plant. The propellant's noticeable muzzle flash and temperature sensitivity led to the development of the MK 316 MOD 0 for Special Operations use."
Below is the new MK 316 MOD 0 7.62 round and was loaded with the single base powder IMR-4064.
"Cartridge, Caliber 7.62mm Special Ball, Long Range, MK 316 MOD 0 (United States): A 175-grain round specifically designed for long-range sniping consisting of Sierra MatchKing Hollow Point Boat Tail projectiles, Federal Cartridge Company match cartridge cases and Gold Medal Match primers. The Propellant has been verified as IMR 4064 (per NSN 1305-01-567-6944 and Federal Cartridge Company Contract/Order Number N0016408DJN28 and has a charge weight per the specs of 41.7."
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My hunting distances are almost always less than 100 yards, so lower velocity in colder weather is never a concern. If it was, I would zero the rifle in cold weather and carry on.
But the reverse is a concern to me. I do a lot of ammo testing and load development in the spring, fall and winter. I don't want to discover that my pet load blows primers and is erratic in the heat of the summer.
I take my winter ammo to the range in a plastic cooler with a 2 litre pop bottle full of hot water. Ammo is take out, 5 rounds at a time, and put in my shirt pocket (98 degrees). Ammo developed this way is good to go in the summer.
In winter or fall hunting, it would be a bit slower and I can re-zero if I think it an issue.
But the reverse is a concern to me. I do a lot of ammo testing and load development in the spring, fall and winter. I don't want to discover that my pet load blows primers and is erratic in the heat of the summer.
I take my winter ammo to the range in a plastic cooler with a 2 litre pop bottle full of hot water. Ammo is take out, 5 rounds at a time, and put in my shirt pocket (98 degrees). Ammo developed this way is good to go in the summer.
In winter or fall hunting, it would be a bit slower and I can re-zero if I think it an issue.
Thank you.
WereWeasel
CGN Regular
- Location
- Albert County, N.B
How far away and how small is this deer? I think the extreme series of powders has more to do with extreme highs as opposed to extreme lows; any material I read regarding temp sensitive ammo has always been hot sunny day in a steel mag. I'm sure the the rifle in that heat didn't help either. I use cfe223 for my .22-250 and when I had a .308 that too. It is excellent consistent powder and it does prevent copper fowling added bonus. Slap a 165 sst on top of 47.7 gr of cfe223 and go have fun.
Some interesting responses here...... nice to learn something from someone else's thread.....
Have been using h4895 with success in the .308, but recently picked up 3 pounds of CFE223 for my 223...... when I get my loading bench and new gear all together, I am going to give it a shot..... never hurts to have a second load available.....
Have been using h4895 with success in the .308, but recently picked up 3 pounds of CFE223 for my 223...... when I get my loading bench and new gear all together, I am going to give it a shot..... never hurts to have a second load available.....
