Ok, so what are they supposed to say after their completely unacceptable experience with the Siberian? I would absolutely expect that an $1800 rifle survive 4000 rounds without a handful of gun-breaking malfunctions. I'm really not sure why people are trying to move the goalposts here. "Oh it's a civilian rifle" "Your utility definition is too rough" "Just don't monopod it/overinsert/use the wrong mags". If I bought a brand new Mercedes and it decided to s&*% out it's water pump at 40k kilometres, that would be a problem. The issue here is that Canadian manufacturers cannot seem to figure out a 60-year-old design that has seen countless iterations and mass production runs, while companies in the states can manage it just fine. Hell, even a bottom of barrel AR15 can run better than this. If I buy a firearm for almost 2 large, and I do my part in very basic maintenance/lubing/loctite, it should go bang every damn time. If my SKS can manage, so should the Siberian. If you're one of the folks that says "well mine runs just fine," then great. Good for you, really. It should not be a dice roll whether or not you get a functional rifle vs. a steaming pile for such a price tag.
CFET BCL Siberian 4000 Round Final Report
- Thread starter CFET
- Start date
Ok, so what are they supposed to say after their completely unacceptable experience with the Siberian? I would absolutely expect that an $1800 rifle survive 4000 rounds without a handful of gun-breaking malfunctions. I'm really not sure why people are trying to move the goalposts here. "Oh it's a civilian rifle" "Your utility definition is too rough" "Just don't monopod it/overinsert/use the wrong mags". If I bought a brand new Mercedes and it decided to s&*% out it's water pump at 40k kilometres, that would be a problem. The issue here is that Canadian manufacturers cannot seem to figure out a 60-year-old design that has seen countless iterations and mass production runs, while companies in the states can manage it just fine. Hell, even a bottom of barrel AR15 can run better than this. If I buy a firearm for almost 2 large, and I do my part in very basic maintenance/lubing/loctite, it should go bang every damn time. If my SKS can manage, so should the Siberian. If you're one of the folks that says "well mine runs just fine," then great. Good for you, really. It should not be a dice roll whether or not you get a functional rifle vs. a steaming pile for such a price tag.
As would I. However I think a more appropriate comparison would be with a BRN-180. Which has been done by at least one firearms publication, and found to be far better performing than the Siberian. The design is likely not the issue. It's quality control/machining/metallurgy issues. It was the same sort of BS with BCL 102.
Kudos to the people who did the 4000 round test but you must respect that your experience is different from my experience.
Many people like Gin, I hate it. I would never eat Prime Rib. I don't like rap. Doesn't mean that the people who do are wrong. They are just different.
Many people like Gin, I hate it. I would never eat Prime Rib. I don't like rap. Doesn't mean that the people who do are wrong. They are just different.
The reason manufacturers don't do testing like this is that it is expensive and it friggen SUCKS to do. It's just mindless trigger pulling and getting gassed out to hell and hanging on to a steaming hot rifle. There is nothing fun about that kind of testing.
This is a good point. One data point doesn't make a rule.
It's an example of choice-supportive bias. People focus on the positives of their purchase and minimize the negatives. It is psychologically difficult for people to admit they made a bad or stupid choice.
Even worse when the tester states that "BCL got every chance" and then later writes "the owner's correspondence with BCL is private".
Add the sponsors (competitors) to the mix and I wonder whose reputation is flushed down the toilette. Meanwhile Raven gen 3 is out, lol. I wonder why?
Yesterday I watched the youtube video of your friend "bearhunter" about the WK181. He tried as hard as he could to get the rifle to fail - didn't happen.
Then he kept on saying that "in all fairness" that he also saw other rifles fail, he mentioned X95 and "others" but that those WK181 really is bad quality and the WK180 even worse.
Pro tip: Get outta here.
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The raven gen3 is out because they are actually improving the rifle lol. The gen2 consisted of a bolt carrier beef up, and a rounding of the trigger guard. The gen3 consists of a new upper with a fwd assist and integrated dust cover. I haven't seen any new generation siberians that have come out to fix any of the issues the rifle has.
I have seen the Raven getting more and more expensive and people on THIS forum reporting problems, read them. Should have bought a Bren2 is what many Raven owners are probably thinking, very bad investment. It is an attempt to copy as much from an AR as possible. I do not think this is a good move but people love money pits.
When you are saying improvements and why others are not doing it - well is the price still the same?
Not really. SFRC just had the Siberian on sale until today for 1,445 with free shipping, and they have it many times. Sure when you go into your local store, you pay. CFET will not test the Raven, they mentioned it before when asked.
They basically said that rifles like the Raven and Bren2 need no testing.
They are shills.
Dang, I'm sorry I missed that deal.
This thread is getting fun so now I think I have to buy a brand new Siberian and test it out for myself. I'll have 5000 rounds through it by the end of the summer (assuming that it doesn't fail horribly like the CFET rifle did)
But I want an all black one. I don't buy tan coloured guns anymore because they always end up getting a greasy dirty appearance unless you clean them after every range session (and that's not me)
Black and ODG guns never seem to have this problem so tan is out for me!
Dang, I'm sorry I missed that deal.
This thread is getting fun so now I think I have to buy a brand new Siberian and test it out for myself. I'll have 5000 rounds through it by the end of the summer (assuming that it doesn't fail horribly like the CFET rifle did)
But I want an all black one. I don't buy tan coloured guns anymore because they always end up getting a greasy dirty appearance unless you clean them after every range session (and that's not me)
Black and ODG guns never seem to have this problem so tan is out for me!
Wait a few weeks, subscribe to their email. They do it so many times.
I almost bought a WK181 yesterday, maybe next time. I really like that rifle. $1,310 on sale.
Kind of funny, but as I mentioned above, in my opinion meateater does not follow through with proof to his claims.
Should be easy to show the communication between him (?) and BCL. Privacy concerns, lol. It has been well established before that this rifle went through many hands before. You can't really chicken out now and claim that BCL has been given every chance and then all you get is some lukewarm reply when you ask for proof.
My experience with BCL (check my user name for started threads and you will find it) is: I sold a Siberian on gp and Canada Post banged it all up. The buyer was pissed, I contacted BCL for parts, and you know what they did? Sent the buyer a free shipping label for his damaged rifle and shipped him a brand new one for free.
BTW: There is NOTHING secret about telling the truth, only when you lie, you cover up and shill out.
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Thanks!
No worries. But be careful, some of the deals are really amazing and they offer installment too, you buy more than you/your wife (?) likes. But easy to sell on gp if you are over budget at those prices.
I didnt like the Wc181 when i went to go take a look at it.. The person rack the bolt like 4 time and told me to smell it.. All could smell was metal on metal burning. That kinda me not want to buy it. I been really thinking of getting the Raven
Ha guns are fun tools, not something I would ever think of financing. .
Dang they have a tan siberian for $1700 plus two other things I want that are decent price too...I just don't want tan!
