CGN Milsurp Rating System

Coyote Ugly said:
"All Matching Except for the Bolt, but the Bolt Matches Itself"

Just Say Mismatched! ;)
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Another way of saying the above is:

The Bolt doesn't match the serial numbers on the rifles receiver.

However, the numbers on the bolt match itself, so we have 2 sets of numbers going on the same rifle!

So, you're not getting an all matching rifle, just a half azzed one that is mismatched!
 
I am STILL trying to figure out what "force" was used to force match the bolt?
It's a STUPID description. Nobody had to "Hammer" the bolt into the rifle!

The other thing is "all matching parts" The Garand collectors mantra. If the rifle has the same parts it left the factory with, then it obviously didn't see much service.
 
Coyote Ugly said:
----------------------------------------------------------------

Another way of saying the above is:

The Bolt doesn't match the serial numbers on the rifles receiver.

However, the numbers on the bolt match itself, so we have 2 sets of numbers going on the same rifle!

So, you're not getting an all matching rifle, just a half azzed one that is mismatched!
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Most people on here would refute your description of a bolt mismatch being a "half azzed"

Also seeing as you despise mismatches so much I wonder if youd be so kind as to direct me to the full matching milsurp section of the EE where they are plentiful...lol
mismatch is a fact of life, they arent all bad.
 
"All Matching Except for the Bolt, but the Bolt Matches Itself"

The above shows up quite often on GB and K98 Forum as a pet peeve several times a year as so many sellers on Gunbroker "Sugar Coat" their descriptions, and here too.

It irritates a lot of people when they see it written this way. And this is what this post by Andy is all about! ;)
 
I see your point. Once a bolt doesn't match, the bolt is no longer part of the equation. Bolt can be mixmaster or matching, rifle will still be a bolt mismatch.
 
A mix master bolt wouldn't carry as much value as one that is completely matching to itself. I do put a value on bolts that are matching to themselves.

For example, would you pay $500 for a rifle that has a bolt that does not match the rifle but matches itself completely or pay the same $500 for a rifle that has a mix-master bolt ? Instead of having one piece mis-matched, now your paying the same amount for a number of things mis-matched.

Just my two cents but I appreciate it when the sellers mentions when the bolt is matching to itself or not.
 
CanadianAR said:
I see your point. Once a bolt doesn't match, the bolt is no longer part of the equation. Bolt can be mixmaster or matching, rifle will still be a bolt mismatch.
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But for certain years (Early) you also have to look at the whole rifle, the Bands (front and rear), stock, cleaning rod, trigger guard, trigger guard screws, lock screws (2) for trigger guard, floor plate, butt plate, etc, etc, as these parts can also be numbered to the receiver.

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Complete Bolt Assembly is either matching or it isn't matching to the receiver's serial number.

If it does not match the receiver, it is just another bolt from another gun.

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A Mixmaster for example is a Russian Capture as it has parts from every year and maker (years 1935-1945, makers BSW, byf, 237, 337, ar, bnz, bcd, dot, swp, etc...) and none of them match as the parts were pulled off of piles of parts and assembled.
 
Mike Webb said:
That is why some of us get irritated when a Russian Capture is described as matching. Electro-pencils do not count, neither do East German or Czech renumbers.
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Wouldn't these rifles qualify as "forced matched"?;)

These rebuilds were renumbered as part of the process. As such, they are correct examples of the type.
 
I never understood the term "force matched". Russian Captures should be called Russian mixmasters to me. The parts the Russians assembled into a rifle are usually incorrect like stamped trigger guards and floorplates on pre war actions, milled barrel bands on 1944 and 1945 actions etc., whatever was in the parts bin. Some see Russian Captures as historically signifigant, I'm not one of them. More like Bubba, Soviet style. Plus the fact that they usually peened the dirty birds on them as well.
 
Will somebody kindly define for me precisely what a "DIRTY BIRD" might be?

Kar98k rifles manufactured during the period of the Third Reich commonly were marked with the appropriate Heereswaffenamt inspctorate numbers and the National Ownership Insignia, which was an Eagle-over-globe, the globe with a Swastika superimposed.

It was the LEGAL INSIGNIA of a DEMOCRATICALLY-ELECTED Government.

Prior to the beginning of hostilities, Adolf Hitler was regarded as one of the wold's Great Statesmen. TIME Magazine had him for Man of the Year TWICE, so that might give a little better historical perspective on things.

Hey, the War's over!

Can we get back to studying historical FIREARMS and ditch the propaganda?
.
 
A "dirty bird" is an eagle grasping a swastika, the Nazi symbol. Rightfully viewed as offensive by the Soviets after the devastation and loss of life suffered by them in defeating their German invaders. The National Socialist Party was elected democratically but then declared Hitler leader for life and outlawed further elections as well as destroying ANY opposition groups. Hitler was named man of the year in 1938 only and not for being a statesman but merely for being a great influence on world events.
Other "men" of the year were Chiang Kai-Shek(Chinese warlord), Joseph Stalin twice(murdering dictator),Nikita Krushchev(murdering dictator), Deng Xiaoping(murdering dictator) Ayatollah Khomeini(religious murdering dictator), Richard Nixon(common criminal), George W. Bush(moron), Vladimir Putin(murdering dictator) and also Wallis Simpson( American divorcee and Nazi sympathizer responsible for King Edward abdicating the English throne). Kind of a rogues gallery, don't ya think. Not propaganda, just historical fact.
Personally I love K98k's and appreciate fine workmanship but Nazi symbols are offensive to millions with good reason.
 
Mike Webb said:
I never understood the term "force matched".
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Making a mismatched part match by butchering and magically renumbering it in a postwar arsenal. ;)

That would be taking a K98 bolt that has a different number than the rifle it is going into, either grinding it down on the bolt root where the old number was and applying the new serial number with number dies (stamps) or electropencil.

Can also be done on any other part like a floor plate or trigger guard, band, and you may see the old number x'd out (###XX) or lined out (-------) with the new serial number applied beside the old number.

Applies to reworks, some East German, VOPO, Czech, RC...
 
Why the props for Hitler Smellie? That statement has even less to do with firearms than someone calling the eagle mark a "Dirty Bird".
 
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