Challenger/Cheddite warming

To be honest, I'm not sure I've ever seen a pierced primer - but I don't go inspecting spent shells either. Is it obvious?

On the topic of Kents, I just bought 10 flats of 7 1/2 1oz 1200FPS Elites. Reasonable price, soft shooting and don't smell as bad as the Top Gun. Early impressions are good.
 
Rob! said:
To be honest, I'm not sure I've ever seen a pierced primer - but I don't go inspecting spent shells either. Is it obvious?

On the topic of Kents, I just bought 10 flats of 7 1/2 1oz 1200FPS Elites. Reasonable price, soft shooting and don't smell as bad as the Top Gun. Early impressions are good.
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It would be easy to miss a pierced primer if your not looking for it. It looks like a burnt primer with a hole in it. They are wonderful shells.
 
Falconflyer said:
The general consensus seems to be that the gun or the firing pin is at least part the problem.
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I would accept that the gun / firing pin are the only thing a shooter can do about the problem (other than buying different ammo), but I would suggest that if cheddite primers are incapable of consistently withstanding a primer strike from some of the best shotguns in the world - then the root problem is with the primers. Product reputation is essential in the clays world. Wonder why they haven't addressed it???
 
Rob! said:
I would accept that the gun / firing pin are the only thing a shooter can do about the problem (other than buying different ammo), but I would suggest that if cheddite primers are incapable of consistently withstanding a primer strike from some of the best shotguns in the world - then the root problem is with the primers. Product reputation is essential in the clays world. Wonder why they haven't addressed it???
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My guess is because they're selling them hand over fist.. they're probably the most popular shotgun primer in the world.
 
Rob! said:
I would accept that the gun / firing pin are the only thing a shooter can do about the problem (other than buying different ammo), but I would suggest that if cheddite primers are incapable of consistently withstanding a primer strike from some of the best shotguns in the world - then the root problem is with the primers. Product reputation is essential in the clays world. Wonder why they haven't addressed it???
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When something like this happens, in the time it takes for the problem to be discovered, then verified as a legit problem, a resolution to the problem planned out, then implemented, it can take months. In that time several million primers are on the shelves in retail outlets and in peoples garages, gun clubs, etc and there is no way to recall all of them so they have to be shot off and eventually be used up before the problem goes away.
 
Saw my first pierced primer the other day, fired from a friend's Ceasar Guerini Invictus. It certainly didn't look like much of a big deal to me. Is there some catastrophic effect that I am missing? I suppose that, over time, hundreds (thousands?) of these pierced primers would erode the firing pins and breech face. I've never seen any eveidence of it but then I've only had one brought to my attention.
 
bdft said:
Saw my first pierced primer the other day, fired from a friend's Ceasar Guerini Invictus. It certainly didn't look like much of a big deal to me. Is there some catastrophic effect that I am missing? I suppose that, over time, hundreds (thousands?) of these pierced primers would erode the firing pins and breech face. I've never seen any eveidence of it but then I've only had one brought to my attention.
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The firing pins will begin to pit and the gasses from the pierced primers can also cause erosion in the receiver. I have less than 10,000 rounds through my Citori and have noticeable pitting on my bottom firing pin.
 
I was shooting with Mancino those few days and they were absolutely pierced


Mancino said:
The firing pins will begin to pit and the gasses from the pierced primers can also cause erosion in the receiver. I have less than 10,000 rounds through my Citori and have noticeable pitting on my bottom firing pin.
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Falconflyer said:
When something like this happens, in the time it takes for the problem to be discovered, then verified as a legit problem, a resolution to the problem planned out, then implemented, it can take months. In that time several million primers are on the shelves in retail outlets and in peoples garages, gun clubs, etc and there is no way to recall all of them so they have to be shot off and eventually be used up before the problem goes away.
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You are aware this started in 2003/2004 at least maybe earlier
That is enough time for any factory shells to be corrected don't you think
14 years
How I know this is since I still have unused boxes dated 2004 from a lot which experienced it initially
Mine was with a ruger not the typical browning so it is the primer not the gun IMO

Cheers

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I didn't know they had been around that long, we never used a lot of challengers around here 14 years ago and few people I know were using cheddite primers.
As for your statement of it being the primer and not the gun, I don't disagree with that entirely. What I said was that the firing pin can be part of the problem and I think that theory is borne out by some of the testimony's here. If you are reading all of the previous posts you'll see that some shooters have had problems that appeared to be rectified when they had the firing pin or pins replaced. I agree that the primers are the root of the problem but it's only a problem with some guns.
 
Falconflyer said:
I didn't know they had been around that long, we never used a lot of challengers around here 14 years ago and few people I know were using cheddite primers.
As for your statement of it being the primer and not the gun, I don't disagree with that entirely. What I said was that the firing pin can be part of the problem and I think that theory is borne out by some of the testimony's here. If you are reading all of the previous posts you'll see that some shooters have had problems that appeared to be rectified when they had the firing pin or pins replaced. I agree that the primers are the root of the problem but it's only a problem with some guns.
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I don't know what people used for factory rounds 14 years ago but Cheddite primers sure were an option for us reloaders way back which is where I was exposted to them at 1/2 the price of 5000 winchesters. In fact the very first ones had the dimensional issues made to UK not north american specs ( black flash hole )which over sized the primer hole in a lot of good hulls. Then came the red flash hole to NA specs and the piercing issue.
Some guns it is very common in mainly brownings and high end shotguns like the k's but others have the issue also
Primer design in the root cause IMO always has been. In fact they reported they corrected it but it doesn't seem so
They are cheap for a reason. I returned to winchesters and all issues stopped
Cheers
 
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14 years ago the clubs that I belonged to were mostly selling Winchester, Remington and occasionally Federals. The first Challengers I can remember getting were winnings at a shoot probably ten or twelve years ago, they were handicap loads and I hated them as they kicked far worse than AA handicap or Super Sport loads. Getting onto the second target on a doubles pair quickly was really difficult so I avoided them if at all possible after that. I was reloading in those days too but again, Winchester, Remington and Federal were what I was coming across most of the time. I know some guys were using Cheddite but they weren't being sold in the stores I was frequenting.
 
Falconflyer said:
14 years ago the clubs that I belonged to were mostly selling Winchester, Remington and occasionally Federals. The first Challengers I can remember getting were winnings at a shoot probably ten or twelve years ago, they were handicap loads and I hated them as they kicked far worse than AA handicap or Super Sport loads. Getting onto the second target on a doubles pair quickly was really difficult so I avoided them if at all possible after that. I was reloading in those days too but again, Winchester, Remington and Federal were what I was coming across most of the time. I know some guys were using Cheddite but they weren't being sold in the stores I was frequenting.
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It was Hummasons we were purchasing the cheddite primers from back then. We would get them in the yearly order for components at the club
Like you challengers were not very common and the few I did see were 28ga
Cheers
 
JIMMY 808 said:
Challengers have been around for 25 years or so.
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Totally different animal. Name only as far back as CIL days
Around 2004 they started being produced with all cheddite components including hulls which we still see today
Just an assembly in Quebec of brought in UK components to my knowledge
They don't produce any of the pieces in Canada
 
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Challenger is now 100% Cheddite owned. It was previously a partnership Elie Zarife. Elie has now been a spokesman for Cheddite and its partners. There are no UK components! They were always produced 100% with Cheddite components except for lead and powder since the beginning. The lead and steel pellets are normally from China. Powder comes from whomever is cheaper. There are many shotshell manufacturers in France and Italy that are partners with Cheddite. I shoot RC from Italy. It uses mainly Cheddite hulls. Since 2010, I have had only one pierced primer in my DT11 and none with my Renato Gamba K13 Sporter.
 
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