Check your bores!!!!!!

desporterizer said:
9mm how would you describe the bore in your pic? It looks like every wartime bore I have ever seen. I agree with the cleaning comments, most of the guns I have looked dark but smooth in the store. Take em home, clean them out , & sure enough pits all over the place. My carcano was the worst, como over rust, I don't think the Italians looked down the bore at all. Still shoots good but i am never going to be able to shoot cast in her. :cry:
Click to expand...

I would say its vg since its still very sharp and the pitting is only towards the last 1/3rd of the bore. It even looks mirror clean towards the chamber area....however...it was clearly described in exc cond with NO pitting..

Another gun has a thougroughly dark bore with 20-30% rifiling left while the other is not much better...both were said to be exc

Claven, I have no doubt it would shoot fine, but value is diminished, cleaning more difficult, and I happen to like knowing my rifle has a properly maintained bore with no holes it in!

there are plenty of wartime rifles with clean unpitted bores around...I would go so far as to say 40-60%% of any given type of rifle still have exc-exc+ bores....i hate sellers who come up with the excuse that most wartime bores are dark and crappy anyway so its your fault for buying it since you should have known
 
I hate people that assume because the gun is a war piece somehow excellent means a pitted bore is excellent. If this is what you think just hit yourself a few times in the head with a hammer.

I been screwed 2 times. One is a finnish capture nagant, supposed to be excellent, bolt handle was pitted, bore had about 1-2mm of black crud along with little sticks and garbage. Flushed it with degreaser, a whole can later the pure black liquid stopped and it went a nice green. A few hundred times with a bore brush and a pass with a tornado brush with those wonderfull stainless steel bristles that ruin bores and it can even shine now :shock: :lol:

Next, a excellent FN49... forgot to mention the fact it had never been cleaned since that past owner. Slight pitting on the gas piston, cracked stock.

Thank God for partial refunds.

Thats the surplus guns. My CZ pistol is another story all together.
 
Scarecrow,

It's likely that any old pitting found on Finn actions was there BEFORE the fins rebuilt the gun. Pretty normal for a Finn, really. The bore might well be excellent - the black crappy goop is some kind of graphite grease the Finns use as preservative and once it dries, it's a bugger to get out. Not saying your gun wasn't a bum deal, the things you describe sound about par for the course for a Finn ;)

9mm, I agree, a pitted up bore is harder to clean and you are right to prefer brandy-new bores. That being said, if that bore have beed described as "dark, G+ with sharp rifling" than the seller would not be lying IMHO.
 
Scarecrow said:
I hate people that assume because the gun is a war piece somehow excellent means a pitted bore is excellent.
Click to expand...

This is a HUGE pet peeve of mine as well. Excellent means Excellent, not "Excellent for an abused wartime gun that wasn't cleaned after shooting corrosive ammo"
 
Claven2 said:
Scarecrow,

It's likely that any old pitting found on Finn actions was there BEFORE the fins rebuilt the gun. Pretty normal for a Finn, really. The bore might well be excellent - the black crappy goop is some kind of graphite grease the Finns use as preservative and once it dries, it's a bugger to get out. Not saying your gun wasn't a bum deal, the things you describe sound about par for the course for a Finn ;)
Click to expand...

Yah graphite.. when the guy told me it shot excellent with the ammo he had, cans at 100yrds he said. Even gave me the ammo with the gun. Czech silvertip :evil:
 
rgwhitman said:
A neat trick to allow you to look down the bore with more precision is to take a rifle cartridge case meant for the rifle,---- or one of smaller caliber and decap the case.
Put the decapped case up to the muzzel and look down the bore through the empty primer pocket.
This changes the "focal point" and allows you to look furthur down the bore and gives a clear and sharp focus on the bore.
An older target rifle shooter showed this to me. Back before bore scopes were common and it works quite well.
Click to expand...

HEY! What a neat Tip! It works pretty good..sort of like a peepsight for checking ones barrels. Very clever..thanx for the tip rgwhitman. :mrgreen:
 
Partial refund requests always indicate to me that the buyer has not done his best to ask questions before buying. This comes from my over 6 years of dealing on the eBay (has nothing to do with guns though). I had a buyer asking for partial refund on vintage ragio that had statics. If only he asked...
 
Just from personal experience, whenever I've dealt in rifles, by which I mean surplus only, cause that's all I deal in ;), and I know that the bore is a little dark, or frosted, or even has some pitting, I'll take it up to the range and do a 5 round grouping shot on paper at 100 metres, mark what loads, what bullet weight, etc.

At least that way when I have a possible buyer looking at it, I can say, yes, it doesn't look brand new, no it isn't brand new, but yes it will still shoot, and here's the target to prove it.

Of course, then it comes back to an issue of trust. Nothing to say that I didn't take that grouping from 10 inches away. That's an unfortunate problem with doing these kinds of dealings through the anonimity of the internet, but I find it helps, even a little.
 
Tudenom said:
... I'd love to have a few good photo's of the inside
of a bore in various conditions so I can post them on the net
as a reference....
Click to expand...

Well, here's one (after EXTENSIVE cleaning) of a Martini-Enfield
.303 that was described by the gunsmith from A Certain Well-Respected
Gun Shop in Canada as "good":

Bore_after%20_cleaning.JPG


Mind you, how good can one expect the bore on this vintage
rifle to be- c.1900, corrosive primers etc.? In retrospect, one
can't expect a big gun shop to do a thorough cleaning on every
old rifle that comes through their hands. On the other hand, to
describe this as "good" makes you wonder just what they were
looking at. The next gun over, maybe?

As to taking the pic, as I recall I took a lot of pics before
I got one that came out well. It was a case of getting the
reflected light right (in this case, a halogen lamp conveniently
bounced into the bore via the breech block) - too much direct
light and there is glare - and using an F-stop that provided the
best focus down the bore.

I agree that, esp. in the case of milsurps, a good bore
photo is an excellent idea.

:) Stuart
 
Actually according to the rating system that is "good". VG+ might be a different story, maybe even VG, but that is what "good" is.
 
Well I to have had trouble with some of the bore descriptions on some of my purchases, but as Claven says, pay the return and get your money back, if the seller will return it that is. If not, such is life. Give the person a bad rep on the buyer/seller feedback and btt it a couple of times just to make sure no one else gets stung. In all of the cases I've encountered, each of the sellers were getting on in years and their eyes aren't as good as they used to be and honestly couldn't see the bore clearly. There wasn't a problem with return for refund. Bearhunter
 
I have been watching this thread for a while and I have a few points:

1. This is a buyer beware thing, if you are spending hundreds or thousands of dollars on a firearm and you don't ask for pictures of a bore or stock that is stupid. Anyone who is selling guns online has a digital camera and can take pictures like the ones shown previously. if you want to know ask.
2. If you are buying from a dealer than you had better trust them or your wasting your time. Most dealers are more than willing to offer a guarantee so don't be afraid to use it if something is wrong.
3. If you are disappointed with what you recieve after not looking at a piece carefully and not asking the right questions that is your fault not the seller. If the seller refuses to take the piece back that is shady but it is a buyer beware system. People have been making money shafting other people for centuries. use the ratings systems or ask others.
4. Sometimes people just don't know. Everybody figures they have the best example of whatever that should get top dollar. Every non-collector i have ever talked to has this gem in "new" condition sitting in the basement. More often than not they have a piece of bubba junk that grandpappy shot elk with beside the furnace.
5. Don't be an ass. If you get something and your not happy with it, the worst thing you can do is call the seller and jack him up. If i sold you something and you insulted or yelled at me because you didn't like it, i would tell you where you could go for "satisfaction".
6. Don't expect something for nothing. We all want a good deal and anyone who is selling doesn't want to take a loss.
7. Milsurps and MBRs are used guns. Used guns are like used cars, some folks like certain things and are willing to live with certain faults. we all have different standards so be aware that the factory glue has long lost its smell.
8. And finally, if you are not happy with the price or condition or service or whatever no one is forcing you to buy the item. a finnish capture SVt-40 with german markings will get sold no matter what shape the bore is in.
 
I really hate to bring this up, but wether we like it or not, a lot of us aren't getting any younger, that also goes for our eyes. I had a friend that can't read a newspaper, without glasses, unless someone holds it 1 meter away from him, pick up a rifle for me from a location several hours drive away. I asked him to make sure the bore was sharp and bright before the seller was given the cash. To make a long story short, both the seller and my (still good) friend have the same vision problems and of course neither of them put their glasses on to inspect the bore (damn male hormones) and believed that the other could see it etc, etc. Any way the bore was a pitted hole without rifleing. Seller was a decent fellow and gave the cash back. Nuff said. bearhunter
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom