Cheryl Gallant Petition

"the perfect is the enemy of the good"

There is no better example of "the perfect is the enemy of the good" then the "I won't sign this...." comments on this thread. On what fantasy planet did the idea that we're going to repeal the firearms act evolve on? (AKA "...NO MORE GODDAM COMPROMISING!!!"). Is your action plan to post on gunnutz with ALL CAPS!!!! and exclamation points, or do you have some strategy other than threatening to not donate to the CPC (which most of you don't do anyway)?
 
The problem is, that "you people" think that the right wing authoritarians that make up the CPC are "friends" of the firearm. They are not. Over and over and over again, I hear quotes being put up from Liberals and Dippers from a decade or two ago, and that convinces you that TODAY's Liberal party wants to 'take all your guns away"??
Times change, and ALL parties will do whatever it takes to win.

OK? So where's your evidence that a Liberal win means "no more guns"???
More old quotes?
Here's one you might enjoy:

“I would suggest (there are things we can do) as well around the issue of firearms themselves. Certain types of weapons. Automatic and semi- automatic weapons. The time has come to question whether weapons that can be fired in rapid succession should be available to the public, and whether their use should be further limited”. - Cabinet Minister Peter MacKay

From: (Ottawa Citizen, September 16, 2006, Page A6).
 
Here are my thoughts:

1) I am in agreement with criminal background checks and character references. Fire arm related crime in your past = no firearm.
2) instant background checks made available to retailers through an open criminal database
3) no PAL system (this is made unesessary due to instant background check.
4) no division of firearm classifications (restricted, non res, prohib). A firearm is a firearm is a firearm. Regardless of barrel length, semi or full auto, etc
5) no magazine capacity. There is nothing wrong with a "STANDARD" capacity magazine for an ar-15 holding 20-30 rounds.
6) the only permits I would sign on for are for concealed carry, and possibly fully automatic weapons. The only restrictions they would condone is bi-annual or annual "training and recertification" to make sure that the people willing to take on the responsibility of carrying concealed firearms are of sound mind and maintain the skill set required.
7) absolutely no form of firearm registry whatsoever.
8) common sense (lol) storage laws. There are already laws in place that state any negligence on your behalf results in criminal charges. Why the need to make it "super duper illegal" when it comes to firearms. If you plan to have firearm access in your home, it is your responsibility to teach your children they are to be respected... The same way you teach them not to drink the draino under the sink.
9) common sense (once again, lol) castle laws. Everyone should have the right to safety and self defence in their own home.
10) common sense self defence laws in general. It is a travesty that someone who is attacked has to spend thousands of dollars defending themselves in court to justify why the fired warning shots at the people trying to burn their house down.
11) every firearm should be available to those who can prove they are responsible (via the instant criminal background check). There is no reason why an ak47 made with a new semi-auto only receiver is anymore dangerous then a ruger 10/22.
12) an active government advertisement campaign to remove the stigma of firearms that the liberal government spent 30+ years smashing down everyone's throats.
13) this must be enshrined in a bill of rights or constitution to avoid it's repealing by future anti-human rights government officials!!!

And just a thought... There is no reason that we as citizens cannot draw up our own bill to replace the firearm act . All we need is an mp to champion it. If some of the great minds on this forum got their ideas down on paper, someone somewhere will take it to Ottawa. Or perhaps the NFA or CSSA could draft their own motions, and gather input from their members.


Thanks for reading.
 
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Grumpy Wolverine said:
WE lost in the 90's because we threw each other under the bus. We lost because shooters said "well I don't own or use those kind of firearms, so it doesn't affect me", and they ignored it because their hunting guns etc weren't in the line of fire. We lost because the anti's were better organized, well spoken, and exploited our weaknesses and knew exactly which heart strings etc to play on, and it worked very well. We lost because the average rank non-gun owner and file person had gotten disillusioned with the Conservatives and didn't want to go as far right as the Reform party, so the right was split down the middle and allowed the liberals to walk right up to the podium for the thank you speech.

How do you know that Blaney isn't drafting up some well thought out legislation to over turn things and to make sure it doesn't happen again, instead of a quick knee jerk reaction immediately that would be easy fodder for another government down the road. I don't care what you want to call it or which definition you want to paint it with, but this amnesty may have saved a whole pile of the guns we are fighting for from being needlessly cut up or destroyed or TURNED IN. If it buys us some time then I am all for it.
Click to expand...

I was just getting out of high school and into shooting when all that was going down. I remember the frustration and disbelief at how quickly - just as you say - gun owners split themselves into "us and them" groups, ready to throw each other under the bus with a running start.

One thing that has stood out in my mind constantly ever since those days, is seeing thousands upon thousands of people on the hill in Ottawa protesting against this abortion we are still dealing with today and reflecting on how "all for nothing" it seemed to be. This is where I'm coming from in thinking that we need to increase our exposure and use all the tools at our disposal - vehemently demanding that something be done about it. From my perspective anyway, thinking back on those days one idea I can't seem to shake is, "If tens of thousands of people on Ottawa's front lawn don't make a statement - I don't know what does." It begs the question of what the right course of action these days is.

Thinking on your points now has caused me something of a change in perspective. I've never really factored in the politics of the time which seemed to be the perfect storm for the Lieberals, as you pointed out. Mulroney had driven the country straight to hell with both hands on the wheel and the pedal to the floor, only to hand control over to that stunned broad Campbell to breath the dying breaths of the party. The first time I ever voted was for the Reform Party and I still can feel the frustration of seeing a map of the country on the TV with the entire western half of the country in Reform green, the Maritimes in NDP orange, and Ontairo and half of Quebec in Lieberal red to find out the Reds won the day.

So far, I have the utmost respect for Blaney - especially, among other things, for what he's done for this nation's veterans when no one else will. He's a newb and should be given the benefit of the doubt until he gives us a reason to remove it. I just can't help but thinking that we wouldn't be in this mess if we would have been demanding what was right years ago instead of putting up with this BS. I do realize, however, that until this majority government happened that we were all stuck in limbo and things in Ottawa move pretty slowly.

I still take exception to being made a criminal of by a bunch of unsupervised, unelected, goose-stepping bureaucrats - even if I am cleared in the eyes of Parliament of any wrongdoing - but I suppose considering the worst-case scenario of this whole debacle a bruised ego should be the least of my concerns.

This is just all so bloody frustrating.
 
AlbertaSheepdog said:
Here are my thoughts:

1) I am in agreement with criminal background checks and character references. Fire arm related crime in your past = no firearm.
2) instant background checks made available to retailers through an open criminal database
3) no PAL system (this is made unesessary due to instant background check.
4) no division of firearm classifications (restricted, non res, prohib). A firearm is a firearm is a firearm. Regardless of barrel length, semi or full auto, etc
5) no magazine capacity. There is nothing wrong with a "STANDARD" capacity magazine for an ar-15 holding 20-30 rounds.
6) the only permits I would sign on for are for concealed carry, and possibly fully automatic weapons. The only restrictions they would condone is bi-annual or annual "training and recertification" to make sure that the people willing to take on the responsibility of carrying concealed firearms are of sound mind and maintain the skill set required.
7) absolutely no form of firearm registry whatsoever.
8) common sense (lol) storage laws. There are already laws in place that state any negligence on your behalf results in criminal charges. Why the need to make it "super duper illegal" when it comes to firearms. If you plan to have firearm access in your home, it is your responsibility to teach your children they are to be respected... The same way you teach them not to drink the draino under the sink.
9) common sense (once again, lol) castle laws. Everyone should have the right to safety and self defence in their own home.
10) common sense self defence laws in general. It is a travesty that someone who is attacked has to spend thousands of dollars defending themselves in court to justify why the fired warning shots at the people trying to burn their house down.
11) every firearm should be available to those who can prove they are responsible (via the instant criminal background check). There is no reason why an ak47 made with a new semi-auto only receiver is anymore dangerous then a ruger 10/22.
12) an active government advertisement campaign to remove the stigma of firearms that the liberal government spent 30+ years smashing down everyone's throats.
13) this must be enshrined in a bill of rights or constitution to avoid it's repealing by future anti-human rights government officials!!!

And just a thought... There is no reason that we as citizens cannot draw up our own bill to replace the firearm act . All we need is an mp to champion it. If some of the great minds on this forum got their ideas down on paper, someone somewhere will take it to Ottawa. Or perhaps the NFA or CSSA could draft their own motions, and gather input from their members.


Thanks for reading.
Click to expand...

I can agree with most of this, though I think at this point in time that #12 would be political suicide for the CPC who would paint a huge target on their backs for the Lieberals and Dippers to shoot flaming arrows at come election time. Timing is everything.

As far as finding someone to champion the message on the hill, if you haven't already done so, sign Rob Anders petition.
 
WE lost in the 90's because we threw each other under the bus. We lost because shooters said "well I don't own or use those kind of firearms, so it doesn't affect me", and they ignored it because their hunting guns etc weren't in the line of fire. We lost because the anti's were better organized, well spoken, and exploited our weaknesses and knew exactly which heart strings etc to play on, and it worked very well. We lost because the average rank non-gun owner and file person had gotten disillusioned with the Conservatives and didn't want to go as far right as the Reform party, so the right was split down the middle and allowed the liberals to walk right up to the podium for the thank you speech.
Click to expand...


Very well said Mr. Wolverine.

I couldn't agree more.

Most GunNutzers on here where not even around then, let alone way back when the first FAC was jammed down our throats.

I have been through plenty of Govt's and firearms legislations, starting with John Diefenbaker when I was a pup.
 
There is a POLL at Sun news please vote!! and tell everyone you know. it is asking of police commishioner Paulson should resign ? what say you? let em know at sun news network and pass this on it is catching on!!
 
cigar_man said:
Very well said Mr. Wolverine.

I couldn't agree more.

Most GunNutzers on here where not even around then, let alone way back when the first FAC was jammed down our throats.

I have been through plenty of Govt's and firearms legislations, starting with John Diefenbaker when I was a pup.
Click to expand...

I just thought I should point out I'm not Mr. Wolverine, that title belongs to the one and only.

I do agree having been down these roads a few times in the past does help to give a person a different perspective and one learns from the lessons.
 
baD mR fRosTy said:
The problem is, that "you people" think that the right wing authoritarians that make up the CPC are "friends" of the firearm. They are not. Over and over and over again, I hear quotes being put up from Liberals and Dippers from a decade or two ago, and that convinces you that TODAY's Liberal party wants to 'take all your guns away"??
Times change, and ALL parties will do whatever it takes to win.

OK? So where's your evidence that a Liberal win means "no more guns"???
More old quotes?
Here's one you might enjoy:

“I would suggest (there are things we can do) as well around the issue of firearms themselves. Certain types of weapons. Automatic and semi- automatic weapons. The time has come to question whether weapons that can be fired in rapid succession should be available to the public, and whether their use should be further limited”. - Cabinet Minister Peter MacKay

From: (Ottawa Citizen, September 16, 2006, Page A6).
Click to expand...

I don't recall anyone here saying they are our friends, but they certainly are the lesser of all the evils at this time.
Show me a quote that says the liberals won't take our guns away.
I talked to a couple of folks who attended their convention and what was said behind those doors would lead most people in our sport to realize what their overall agenda is.
 
I would support a motion that would regulate firearms on a provincial level. That way popular wishes/requirements specific to locality could be addressed better. For example, if rural Albertans want to take a revolver in the field, they should have permission to do so. At the same time municipalities may restrict firearms somewhat (transport, discharge, storage restrictions) and this should be based on a democratic decision. IMHO the panicky perception of the general populus in Toronto, that handguns are primarily responsible for all evil on this planet, shouldn't have any repercussions on the rest of us.
 
Grumpy Wolverine said:
I don't recall anyone here saying they are our friends, but they certainly are the lesser of all the evils at this time.
Show me a quote that says the liberals won't take our guns away
Click to expand...

Well said and you hit the nail on the head. They are the lesser of multiple evils out there and let's be realistic - who else is there? There have been a handful of posts that basically say "run screaming to the Libertarians" .... hmm ... Ok there are - how many of us gun owners? If ALL of us did just than - assuming that they have candidates in all Federal ridings how many candidates could we elect? We could add to the seats that they have now ... oh wait a sec they have none.

Election # of candidates # of votes % of popular vote % in ridings contested
1979 60 16,042 0.14% ?
1980 58 14,656 0.13% ?
1984 72 23,514 0.19% 0.70%
1988 88 33,185 0.25% 0.35%
1993 52 14,630 0.11% 0.25%
1997 * * *
2000 * * *
2004 8 1,949 0.01% 0.32%
2006 10 3,002 0.02% 0.27%
2008 26 7,300 0.05% 0.07%
2011 23 6,017 0.04%

Let's be real here - the Libertarians may say more of what we want but they're not going to have the clout to do anything for us.

This is the time to focus our support where it will get us the most bang for our buck and right now that's the CPC.

And with all due respect to 5point9straight6 - supporting a motion to take firearms regulation to provincial level will cause more problems than it will solve. Don't kid yourself the problem will not be limited to Toronto. Try Ontario, Quebec, BC and who knows? Think of it this way - by having to deal with the Feds we're effectively dealing with only one government; with provincial regulation and each one doing their own thing we'll be divided and that will only hurt us.
 
paul1shooter said:
There is a POLL at Sun news please vote!! and tell everyone you know. it is asking of police commishioner Paulson should resign ? what say you? let em know at sun news network and pass this on it is catching on!!
Click to expand...

Do you think anyone takes Sun News polls seriously? They don't hold any weight with most regular people let alone government officials.
 
greentips said:
This petition by Rob Enders is a better one IMHO

http://www.nominaterobanders.com/fi...ition&utm_me dium=email&utm_source=robanders#
Click to expand...

We can sign both, and should sign both.

Signing these petitions does not somehow void your right to fight to repeal C68, or to rewrite the firearms act. And signing these petitions should NOT be the end of our actions. We've been heard, we need to keep up the pressure, and we need to amplify the pressure. Sign the petitions and send Gallant and Enders letters stating that these are just quick fixes, and nowhere near enough. Threaten with your vote if you wish, for a real solution.

Flood everybody with letters. Even the NDP and Liberals. If we are loud enough that they think gun control is an election loser, they'll fear moving forward with it.

We need to keep the pressure up, and keep it constant. Not just sending one letter or a couple of letters this week. It's sending letters regularly. Its introducing everyone you know into the sport. The antis managed to push through legislation with a small number of loud voices, for a problem we didn't have. We can push back. They are all paper laws, and with time and effort, they can all be reversed.
 
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Grumpy Wolverine said:
I don't recall anyone here saying they are our friends, but they certainly are the lesser of all the evils at this time.
Show me a quote that says the liberals won't take our guns away.
I talked to a couple of folks who attended their convention and what was said behind those doors would lead most people in our sport to realize what their overall agenda is.
Click to expand...

That may be so, but it is hardly inspiring for me to vote for the CPC...and against my beliefs in science, in climate change, in education, in literacy programs, in taking care of our veterans, in reduced military squandering (engineless F-35 anyone??), in the arts, in green energy, in reduction of oil consumption, in adding "Royal (??) back to everything after taking 100 years to get rid of it, in a corrupt CPC-stacked Senate...and all the OTHER ham-fisted CPC policies... IF they are just going to maintain the status quo.

As for "proof" that they won't take all our guns away, I have only my response from Trudeau's office that says they won't. I posted it on here a while back, and I don't feel like going through THAT again, lol! In fact, JT makes it very clear these days that he no longer even supports the LGR, because he has seen how unpopular it was. That's called changing one's mind when one has new facts.

Do not misunderstand, me, please: I have never voted for the LPC in 30 years of voting. I merely make the points that 1) the CPC must earn my vote, if they're just going to leave things like they are regarding firearms, I'll take my chances voting Libertarian, and 2) I would like someone to prove to me all these fearful claims that any other party besides the CPC, and "all our guns are gone!".

I am sorry, truly, but that feels like fear mongering to me...

And I think if folks expect the CPC to stand up for our gun rights, they need to stop promising them their votes on a silver platter, that's all. I am a gun owner, I'm not the enemy. I'm not a "libtard", or a "lieberal" or a 'commie" or any of the other nonsense I get on a daily basis on here. I happen to have many "conservative" views...on nukes, on common-sense gun laws.

I just don't like Harper, sorry. And I smell a rat in this whole thing, to be honest. But now's his chance to proven how wrong I am!

At any rate, thank you for your contribution to the cause - and I will continue to hammer away for gun rights as well, from MY POV. There are more of us "lefty" gun owners than one might think - especially by perusing THIS website (as much fun as it is!)...

Cheers
bMf
 
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