Chinese Proof Testing

This has gotten so frickin rediculous. CANAM, thanks for doing what you do.

All else pleased drop this, nobody is forcing you to buy anything, and you are not saving the world from anything either.

As a country we need all of the help from fellow shooters as we can. If these fun little guns bring in a handful of shooters o the sport, than by all means, use cheap labour. What difference does it make? Typing lines on you chinese laptop, about how much cheap labour is bad, really does nothing to stop cheap labour or oppression for that matter.

If you really feel the need to help out your fellow man in the factory, buy him an F'in hamburger, help him save that three bux and get on with your life.
 
If it wasn't terribly obvious I was joking. I thought it was funny.


Actually, the Chinese labour doesn't bother me. As their economy grown in sophistication and complexity, so will their wages. This assumes that they can keep their population in check. As they build domestic capacity, demand rises, wages rise and we can welcome a former communist enemy to the wonderful world of the free market. It is best for the people and for us as their neighbours. I have no problem buying chinese, and I love the work Canam is doing even though I won't buy one as I prefer a little more quality. I do respect the niche they are filling. Plus in an era where North American prices are skyrocketing, it will force them to compete better. The chinese need to improve quality and QC, and the North American products need to compete on even higher quality in order to justify the prices. I'm happy about the whole affair.

This does not mean that the Chinese are beyond criticism, or that the Government doesn't needs a vicious spanking. They do.
 
drvrage said:
I have no problem buying chinese, and I love the work Canam is doing even though I won't buy one as I prefer a little more quality. I do respect the niche they are filling. Plus in an era where North American prices are skyrocketing, it will force them to compete better.
Click to expand...

I also prefer more quality as well. I do not think that importing less quality will will force or encourage North America to lower prices, with out lowering their quality control to match the imports. After all post after post many openly state that they are willing to accept less quality if the price is right!
 
Covey Ridge said:
I also prefer more quality as well. I do not think that importing less quality will will force or encourage North America to lower prices, with out lowering their quality control to match the imports. After all post after post many openly state that they are willing to accept less quality if the price is right!
Click to expand...

CR - your last statement is very valid and I'm sure it is not lost on many folks here.......but I'm afraid such matters have simply become a consistent residue of the changing economic times.

Imagine (for lack of a better analogy) - that one of those Chinese firearms such as the 870 clones etc will likely perform the task to the most extent.....they may lack the finesse etc when compared to the NA made versions but still retain enough attraction and that coupled with their low price point will continue to draw to them a new generation of shooters.

Moreover, this (younger) generation of shooters are also attracted to stuff that are more appealing from a fantasy perspective :) and are happily willing to deflect from convention to enjoy such fantasies even if that means sidestepping issues such as quality, practical usefulness etc etc :) i.e. till they grow out of it and the next generation takes over :D
 
Ahsan Ahmed said:
CR - your last statement is very valid and I'm sure it is not lost on many folks here.......but I'm afraid such matters have simply become a consistent residue of the changing economic times.
Click to expand...

You are probably right! I fear that if we just surrender, the consistent residue will become the norm. I know that it has allready become the expectation for many.

Imagine (for lack of a better analogy) - that one of those Chinese firearms such as the 870 clones etc will likely perform the task to the most extent.....they may lack the finesse etc when compared to the NA made versions but still retain enough attraction and that coupled with their low price point will continue to draw to them a new generation of shooters.
Click to expand...

I understand what you are saying. With the 870 clones, the inch we gave to attract this new generation of shooters has turned into a mile of lost quality that now seems to be on our door step with these cheap doubles.

Moreover, this (younger) generation of shooters are also attracted to stuff that are more appealing from a fantasy perspective :) and are happily willing to deflect from convention to enjoy such fantasies even if that means sidestepping issues such as quality, practical usefulness etc etc :) i.e. till they grow out of it and the next generation takes over :D
Click to expand...

Do you mean grow out of it or grow up? I was once younger as well. I can understand fantasy and I certainly can understand fun guns, contrary to what one person has suggested. Someone more notable than I has often been quoted as saying that only accurate guns are interesting. I do not know if I agree with that 100% but with some of the accuracy demonstrated on these threads with these brand new imports I wonder what is the point? What good are they other than to go bang? All that I have seen so far have serious poi or accuracy issues especially for their intended purpose. Of all those attracted to the shooting sports, few of those who seldom hit their target will remain and few will have fun. I am also concerned with gun falling apart the first time they are shot. Now, how can anyone have fun or enjoy his/her fantasy if this happens? I am all for cheap guns and cheap fun if it can be had, but so far I have not seen anything to indicate any quality control or anything to indicate that they are safe or that anyone knows for sure what safety measures were taken?

Ahsan Ahmed, thank you for your post. I am glad you did not call me ignorant or a racist just for voicing my opinion.
Click to expand...
 
Covey Ridge,

As for cheap guns, especially shotguns, people have been saying the exact same things as you about cheap Spanish and Belgian guns for 100 years. There will always be a cheap gun for that market. As for safety, I posted the test regimen.

We were asked by CGN members to import these guns, we did, and now your gang of three are spreading vitriolic half truths about these guns, in an obvious smear campaign. Our warranty is excellent, if the gun breaks, we'll fix it. We have had very few back, but dozens of calls of appreciation from owners.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
lets face it Chineese QC is hit and miss...some firms over there produce top notch products with very high QC and are dependable....other firms lie on thier QC and produce garbage. Buyer beware.


Oh and BTW it wasnt poison grain into pet food, they used Melamine, as Melamine when tested by a lab either theirs or independent will "mimick" protein so as to appear that the food product contains the correct protein content. The fact that they used melamine which is cheap and caused kidney failure in the pets didnt appear to concern them as they had skewred the test method to make it "appear to pass"

Anytime you buy something you are taking it on faith that the good does in fact live up to its intended purpose or that if its a firearm the proof test was done correctly. Lets face it, just because a gun is stamped with proofs doesnt mean it was in fact tested or it doesnt mean that if it was tested is was tested "correctly".

That being said many western manufacturers have been caught cheating over the years. Example Gerber baby foods was found to be making apple juice for years which contained no apple juice, just water, yellow dye and sugar.

In the end its all about trust...either you trust the company or you dont. Its your dollar.
 
Last edited:
Claybuster:

You asked for gun proofing procedure and CanAm provided it to you. Period.

You can have your opinion but ruin the forum is another matter.
 
michaelsabre said:
Claybuster:

You asked for gun proofing procedure and CanAm provided it to you. Period.

You can have your opinion but ruin the forum is another matter.
Click to expand...
No what CanAm provided wasn't the proofing procedure. What he provided is what his Chinese supplier told him the proofing procedure is. There is a difference. Hearsay versus first hand knowledge.
 
Claybuster said:
No what CanAm provided wasn't the proofing procedure. What he provided is what his Chinese supplier told him the proofing procedure is. There is a difference. Hearsay versus first hand knowledge.
Click to expand...



At least CanAm has visited Chinese gun factories.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
michaelsabre said:
At least CanAm has visited Chinese gun factories.
Click to expand...
Sure he went. And didn't ask about proof testing until I posed the question.

And no I don't want everything for nothing. I'm willing to pay for quality guns and so far that doesn't include the sxs from China.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
One last reply from me. As for the accusation that we cared little about the safety of these guns before importing them, as stated before, these guns pass CIP proof in Europe, and have been sold in the US and Canada for years. Those facts were, and are, more than enough to assure me of their safety.
 
michaelsabre said:
Claybuster:

You asked for gun proofing procedure and CanAm provided it to you. Period.

You can have your opinion but ruin the forum is another matter.
Click to expand...

I don't think anyone is ruining the forum here.....

Constructive debates are never unhealthy and I must point out with strong conviction that Claybuster's question on the clarity of Proof has been legitimate all along.

While it may not directly affect the individual who is not interested in the specific product, nevertheless, it will most certainly affect the individual who has already done so or contemplating on acquiring the product. As simple as that! It is fine as long as that has been addressed.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with calling a spade a spade!
 
Claybuster said:
No what CanAm provided wasn't the proofing procedure. What he provided is what his Chinese supplier told him the proofing procedure is. There is a difference. Hearsay versus first hand knowledge.
Click to expand...

Are you serious? Honestly, this foolishness is beyond absurd. I assume you will be holding all importers and all gunsellers to a similar standard, and I presume that standard is they all go to each factory they get guns from and watch each gun being made and tested? Does this only apply to makers you don't like, or does Canam also have to go watch Tavors be made and tested as well, how about the Pumas, what if he brings in Remington, or do we simply take Remingtons word they they have proofed the guns they make?
God, I hope Marstar, Lever Arms and anyone who sells Chinese guns doesn't see this, they will have to get a timeshare in China to watch each gun be made and tested, while demanding workers identity papers, and proof the oil doesn't have PCPs in it......:jerkit:
 
Proof marks are not an insurance that nothing bad will happen, but are a signature that there has been a test done and that the manufacturer is accountable.
 
:onCrack:My answer to the cost of housing is not to require that safety inspectors sign off on their inspections. A call from the salesman to the job foreman to describe the usual method should be all that is required.;) :onCrack:

especially the stuff in the lower price bracket. ;)
 
Proofing guns in the states is a specialized accessory. Frankly with high points and all the bargain basement crap made there I find it funny people are talking about norinco's from CanAm, especially since I havent seen one that has exploded yet.

You want your gun proofed? There are gunsmiths that can do it for you.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom