Choosing a custom action

[Alpheus]

There is a possibility the round will not be concentric to the bore before the trigger is pulled.
.....
It's generally believed the long heavy extractor can affect the line up the live round in the chamber.

Source?
Clearances between the round and the chamber are a matter of thousands of an inch, I don't see how the extractor can "affect the line up" of a loaded round once the bolt is closed.

A 700 style extractor is spring loaded, and once the round is chamber, it too will be pushing against the rim of the cartridge. Won't this also meant the round is not concentric too?

 

[Brutus]

Source?
Clearances between the round and the chamber are a matter of thousands of an inch, I don't see how the extractor can "affect the line up" of a loaded round once the bolt is closed.

A 700 style extractor is spring loaded, and once the round is chamber, it too will be pushing against the rim of the cartridge. Won't this also meant the round is not concentric too?

There are presently 30 NATO member nations.
Name me any two military players that use a Mauser actioned sniper rifle. Belgium and Former Yugo excluded.

 

[Alpheus]

There are presently 30 NATO member nations.
Name me any two military players that use a Mauser actioned sniper rifle. Belgium and Former Yugo excluded.

Not what I asked, look at what I was quoting. You claim a Mauser style extractor can cause miss-alignment of a loaded round. Prove it.

 

[Brutus]

Not what I asked, look at what I was quoting. You claim a Mauser style extractor can cause miss-alignment of a loaded round. Prove it.

The proof is in my reply.
If it wasn't a problem then Mausers would still be on the NATO firing line. Obviously they are obselete.

If that's too hard for you I suggest we disengage now.

 

[laker415]

The proof is in my reply.
If it wasn't a problem then Mausers would still be on the NATO firing line. Obviously they are obselete.

If that's too hard for you I suggest we disengage now.

I'm interested in the reasoning as well. How does a control round feed cause mis alignment but a spring loaded ejector on a push feed action doesn't?

 

[kthomas]

The proof is in my reply.
If it wasn't a problem then Mausers would still be on the NATO firing line. Obviously they are obselete.

If that's too hard for you I suggest we disengage now.

I guess I need to tell my CRF Mausingfield action that it's not allowed to shoot one hole groups. It seems to misbehave a lot.

 

[laker415]

I guess I need to tell my CRF Mausingfield action that it's not allowed to shoot one hole groups. It seems to misbehave a lot.

Must be luck on account of the misalignment issue

 

[rugbydave]

I guess I need to tell my CRF Mausingfield action that it's not allowed to shoot one hole groups. It seems to misbehave a lot.

Same for my CRF Defiance Elite and ARC Nucleus... I guess I forgot to check what NATO was issuing before buying, my bad. We all know that the military only ever cooks up the best of the best... like the "government" profile barrel on ARs, obviously the best barrel contour.

 

[adamg]

It's basically a rule of nature that if a military makes a gun decision, it's the wrong one.

 

[Alpheus]

Same for my CRF Defiance Elite and ARC Nucleus... I guess I forgot to check what NATO was issuing before buying, my bad. We all know that the military only ever cooks up the best of the best... like the "government" profile barrel on ARs, obviously the best barrel contour.

Mil-spec is best-spec, right?

 

[rugbydave]

Mil-spec is best-spec, right?

Undoubtedly! I mean, military procurement never has anything to do with the lowest bid, lobbying and politics, hahaha

 

[Maple57]

I'm interested in the reasoning as well. How does a control round feed cause mis alignment but a spring loaded ejector on a push feed action doesn't?

Take a good look at both types of actions.... Specifically the bolt and ejection mechanism.

The spring plunger on a Rem 700 for example exerts considerable force on the round to one side while chambered. Fire formed brass will certainly compensate for this, but that is not the whole story.

Once the round is fired and ejected, the ejector spring drives the neck into the side at extraction and that makes the neck become D shaped.

Now, when you attempt to reload the case, that bend point may be the split line when the neck splits for one thing and second is how that dent in the neck negatively affects neck concentricity. The forces are already offset.

The controlled round feed does not apply any side load when chambered, and at ejection, the neck is clear when the case is thrown out of the action.

Target shooters usually cut the ejector spring short to reduce the problems associated with all this, but then they don't get enthusiastic ejection.... if any.

Some guys will argue that none of the above is relevant to anything worthwhile and others will obsess about the difference. You are free to choose.

If you don't reload, the difference is moot.

If you do reload for real precision and want nothing left un-addressed, the difference may be relevant to you.

 

[adamg]

Take a good look at both types of actions.... Specifically the bolt and ejection mechanism.

The spring plunger on a Rem 700 for example exerts considerable force on the round to one side while chambered. Fire formed brass will certainly compensate for this, but that is not the whole story.

Once the round is fired and ejected, the ejector spring drives the neck into the side at extraction and that makes the neck become D shaped.

Now, when you attempt to reload the case, that bend point may be the split line when the neck splits for one thing and second is how that dent in the neck negatively affects neck concentricity. The forces are already offset.

The controlled round feed does not apply any side load when chambered, and at ejection, the neck is clear when the case is thrown out of the action.

Target shooters usually cut the ejector spring short to reduce the problems associated with all this, but then they don't get enthusiastic ejection.... if any.

Some guys will argue that none of the above is relevant to anything worthwhile and others will obsess about the difference. You are free to choose.

If you don't reload, the difference is moot.

If you do reload for real precision and want nothing left un-addressed, the difference may be relevant to you.

This all sounds reasonable and accurate, I am in agreement until proven otherwise.

 

[Alpheus]

Once the round is fired and ejected, the ejector spring drives the neck into the side at extraction and that makes the neck become D shaped.

Now, when you attempt to reload the case, that bend point may be the split line when the neck splits for one thing and second is how that dent in the neck negatively affects neck concentricity. The forces are already offset.

1) I think you are over-exaggerating any deformation caused by the extraction. I have never seen any brass with anything more then a slight flattened spot on the case mouth.

2) Will any imperfection in neck concentricity will last past resizing the brass? Especially full length sizing.

 

[cartwheel]

I run with the ejector plunger and spring removed- extractor only. Pull out the old case, put in a new one. Brass doesn't go flying, just back in the box, no damage or drama.

If you are going to try and explore the ultimate accuracy of a high end custom action then reloading and careful tuning is the only way. 50% of what people do works, 50% doesn't and 50% is BS. Just need to figure out what works for you.

 

[laker415]

Take a good look at both types of actions.... Specifically the bolt and ejection mechanism.

The spring plunger on a Rem 700 for example exerts considerable force on the round to one side while chambered. Fire formed brass will certainly compensate for this, but that is not the whole story.

Once the round is fired and ejected, the ejector spring drives the neck into the side at extraction and that makes the neck become D shaped.

Now, when you attempt to reload the case, that bend point may be the split line when the neck splits for one thing and second is how that dent in the neck negatively affects neck concentricity. The forces are already offset.

The controlled round feed does not apply any side load when chambered, and at ejection, the neck is clear when the case is thrown out of the action.

Target shooters usually cut the ejector spring short to reduce the problems associated with all this, but then they don't get enthusiastic ejection.... if any.

Some guys will argue that none of the above is relevant to anything worthwhile and others will obsess about the difference. You are free to choose.

If you don't reload, the difference is moot.

If you do reload for real precision and want nothing left un-addressed, the difference may be relevant to you.

Yeah thanks. I understand how it all works and run control round feed actions. I wanted to hear from the guy saying a control round feed causes misalignment.

 

[Mystic Precision]

Assume precious few have handled a chambered barrel sans action?

Take a properly sized case for the chamber (this is a discussion about precision rifles right?) and put it fully into the chamber. Try and I am TRY to move it side to side... even use some pliers.

Some posts just make me smile....

Jerry

 

[cartwheel]

Assume precious few have handled a chambered barrel sans action?

Take a properly sized case for the chamber (this is a discussion about precision rifles right?) and put it fully into the chamber. Try and I am TRY to move it side to side... even use some pliers.

Some posts just make me smile....

Jerry

Exactly.... and what do people think gravity is doing this whole time? The only way to lose concentricity is to have a bad chamber or a crooked load. A good chamber and a straight load doesn't give any room to move. BTW- I didn't remove the ejector because of "crooked" loads- I jus don't like chasing brass.

 

[porpoise]

The spring ejector locates the cartridge consistently if it weren’t there the cartridge would roll around and couldn’t shoot straight

 

[rugbydave]

Assume precious few have handled a chambered barrel sans action?

Take a properly sized case for the chamber (this is a discussion about precision rifles right?) and put it fully into the chamber. Try and I am TRY to move it side to side... even use some pliers.

Some posts just make me smile....

Jerry

The things people will obsess about in the quest to shoot "better" instead of practicing/training to shoot better...

Personally, I make sure that all my ammo is seated in a mag with the head stamp oriented the same way, you know, for consistency