Choosing my first ever Rifle, Need General Guidance

Mad_Mikee said:
Maybe try picking up one of the AICS stocks to see how you like it. I honestly dont like the feel of them. To me, they feel like a huge chunk of plastic.

I'd way rather have an A5 or an A3.
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That was going to be my next thing, i was going to contact all the sponsors of this website and see if one is in my area (GTA) and ask them if they have the mentioned stocks in stock. (ha ha i made funny one)
OR to see if a KIND member in my area would let me HOLD they're rifle fitted with the AICS stock or a mentioned A5 or A3?

We could meet at a neutral territory, like a tim hortans, coffees on me. :dancingbanana::dancingbanana:
 
Mystic Precision said:
First question - YES, there are many many Rem and rem type actions being used in all forms of target shooting. have been for decades and is the Chevy V8 of this sport.

2nd question. Take Maynards advice and go to an intro day. If paper punching will be your thing, you need to decide on what sport floats your boat. The gear and chambers will become obvious once you decide on the game and rules.

If you visit my website and look in the tech section, there are many articles that can help you on your quest.

LR target shooting is a lot fun and you will meet some great guys and gals. Look at the various disciplines like F class, tactical matches, TR, Silhouette, BR, etc.

There is lots to choose from and once you know the direction you want to go, the rest is easy.....

Jerry
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HEy Jerry, thank you for the response. I did go to your website and skimmed through a couple articles, they are very detailed. I'm going to print those out and read them on my flight back home. Thank you for pointing those out. I will be contacting you in the near future when i am in need of some items.
 
cosmic said:
As above, take Maynards advice and get out to a range with some knowledgeable shooters. Its not clear if you've even shot a centrefire rifle - its not everybodies cup of tea. To boot, there are other aspects of the sport that may be of interest - eg shotgun sports - which are much more available compared to 500 y plus ranges.
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:( havent shot a center fire, but i know thats what i want. Ive shot multiple handguns, which i want nothing to do with. I know i want a rifle, and i know its for long range shooting.
My friends do shotgun sports. They compete in alot of tournaments and they have tried to get me into it, but i know its not for me.
Thanks for your resoponse.
 
Big_red_truck said:
you aren't allowed in the woods with a certain caliber during a certain season. At least that's what I understood from the law.the biggest rifle you can carry is a 22.250 out of season I believe. During moose , bear and deer you are allowed bigger calibers.

Don't take my word for it. I think that's how it works in New-Brunswick anyways.

You need a hunting license to carry a firearm on crownland. The OP said he would be hunting small game , I say go with a .223 or 22-250.
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If thats correct, then thats stupid. what can a 308 do that a 22.250 cant? a rifle is a rifle, a bullet is a bullet. OHH, IM JUST GOING TO DROP CANADIAN GUN LAWS RIGHT NOW BEFORE I GET WORKED UP ON IT.

Forgot to mention i got my hunting license last month.

+2 for .308
+1 for .260
+4 for .223
 
maynard said:
I am so far south I can see Point Peele from my house on a clear day.
If you are shooting in a safe direction and have a proper backstop, crown land or private property there is no caliber restriction for target shooting a CF rifle. Where this starts to get sticky is when hunting season is on.
The old saying "that if it looks like a duck and acts like a duck, it's probably a duck". So if you are target shooting make it very clear that you are target shooting. ie paper targets, stapler etc.
If you are dressed in camo and walking through a field or bush with a bunch of guys on a coyote drive, there is a good chance you are not target shooting.
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ahahhahaha officer i ALWAYS WEAR CAMMO GEAR, EVEN IN THE SACK, SCOUTS HONOUR.
 
ulterior_motive said:
I looked at there website, from what i understand is that this a gunclub, which i dont mind commuting too, and they do have classes which i can attend in the spring/summer season, but how about a range? do they also have a range? is the ORA just a association which brings sharpshooters together? or do they operate out of a range of some sort?

I will be calling them next week when i get a chance to see what they can offer me.
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The ORA is a Provincial Rifle Association. We use DND ranges all over the province do to our co-joint memebrship with the national body DCRA or Dominion of Canada Rifle Association. We use several ranges at CFB Borden, the range at CFB Kingston, and the DND ranges at Winona and Cedar Springs.
By joining the ORA you have access to all these ranges.

At Borden we shoot everything from CQB and short range plinking to competitions out to 1000 yards. Kingston 300-600 yards and Winona and Cedar Springs are limited to 400m. From April to about the first week of Oct there is usually a match or practice at one of these ranges and sometimes there is something going on at several, every weekend.
Borden also has a mid week 1000 yard practice in the late afternoon until dusk.

The ORA Intro Days and the Winter program (see thread below) are just what you are looking for. It will cover all the types of shooting we do. And will answer questions like which caliber is best for the game you want to play. What scopes and bases work and what ones to stay away from. The winter program will also have a day about reloading for precision shooting.

At the end of this you should be able to walk away with enough knowledge to purchase a rifle and equipment that will work for you. Not something a guy on the internet or in a gun store says will work to make a sale.

Check out this thread.
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=689617
 
One thing these guys forgot to mention is wind. The smaller and lighter the bullet the more you have to compensate for wind. .308 is better than the 223 or .243 for wind drift but at longer distances the bullet drop starts to get a little much. Not so bad with .260 or .284. Just my 2 cents. I am a 6.5 x 284 man, once again it is all about what you intend on doing.
 
ulterior_motive said:
So, you chose the .243 because you new you knew you would change the barrel to a higher caliber? why wouldn't you just get a higher caliber barreled rifle? Not trying to sound insulting on that question but can you explain as to why you did that? was it because you initially used it as a practice caliber? and moved up to a more expensive caliber after you had some more experience?

so we are a

+2 for .308
+1 for .260
+1 for .223
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Dude, seriously. I started with a .223 and within a year switched up to a .260 custom barreled, new stock, new scope, etc etc. The ORA winter program is excellent. Take it like Maynard suggests, it gives you the best overall exposure to the beginnings of long range shooting, and it includes a range day at Borden, 300 yards for starters. We got lucky on the day I went and we got back to 500. If it's the game you want to play in this will confirm it, or help you decide on another direction. You can spend all you have and more... proceed accordingly.

There are many clubs you can join within 1 hour of your home. Each is different and each has different range facilities. Oshawa, Sharon, Barrie, Aurora, for starters.

Have you shot, IPSC, or IDPA, handguns, semi-auto rifle, shotgun... there's so many options/disciplines...
 
I'm no expert in this discipline but I own a TRG 42 and from your earlier description It seems to me that this rifle in 300 WM may interest you. It has all the attributes of a customizable rifle via a "highly" user adjustable stock/trigger system and because of this, among other things, you can experiment without compromising resale values. It'll come with a 1/2 moa guarantee and deliver on that promise if my .338LM is any indication. The trigger is unbelievable ! The TRG 42 isn't cheap to buy, nor are the shims etc you'll acquire to customize it but it'll drive tacks and hold its value as long as you take proper care of it.

Anyhow, the TRG 42 will be an interesting option for you to check out and the 300 WM cartridge will meet your requirements as well. I reload the round for my W 70 and none of the "belted mag" issues I've heard about seem to apply. This, evidently comes as no surprise to many of the more venerable riflemen here on CGN.

Have fun.
 
Enfield303 said:
One thing these guys forgot to mention is wind. The smaller and lighter the bullet the more you have to compensate for wind. .308 is better than the 223 or .243 for wind drift but at longer distances the bullet drop starts to get a little much. Not so bad with .260 or .284. Just my 2 cents. I am a 6.5 x 284 man, once again it is all about what you intend on doing.
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Actually a .223 with 80 gr bullets has a slight edge over a .308 shooting 155gr bullets in the wind. If you have the twist to shoot 90 gr bullets out of a .223 it will beat the 155's and be very close to the 175's out of a .308. Run the numbers at see for yourself;)
 
Start with something in 223, I'd hunt down a tikka tactical with the 1/8 twist, I'd also get a 22lr trainer, for every 223 round you shoot you can shoot 10 22lr...
 
This is interesting - I know several people that are reasonably experienced shooters, that just cant shoot a medium calibre centrefire rifle without flinching. It will be interesting to see if the OP does on his/her first outing, particularly is someone offers up a 300 win mag...
 
If your going to get a Win Mag it better be heavy or braked. Anyone tells you a 8 - 10 lbs 300 Win Mag won't beat the crap out of you at the range has never shot one or has a flaw in their nervous system. I'm good for about 25 rounds without my sissy pad. Then I stuff it back in its case and pull out the .223.

Seriously, stay away from Magnums for your first rifle. You want to not go wrong but can't decide. Take three peices of paper write 223, 308, and 260 on them and throw them into a hat...
 
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If you're thinking of handloading, don't be shy, it gets ALOT more easy to understand once you start setting things up. Plus the sooner you start, the sooner you start to save money.


The AICS stock you're interested in is VERY pricy, about $1250 IIRC. I'd love to have one too but the price is quite overwhelming. You may want to consider a Choate tactical stock, modeled after the MacMillan A5 costing about $500-$600.


If you do decide to handload, don't choose a rifle based on a calibre. First, identify what projectile you want to shoot, not the calibre. I'd love to build a 7mm something or other because they are cheap, low recoil, and have very nice BC (Ballistic coefficient) values. A 7mm bullet should be able to take down any deer in the country too.

The next thing you need to figure out is at which velocity you want to launch them at. If 3000 fps is your goal, you'll need to pick a barrel burning calibre, such as the 7mm WSM in my case. If you prefer barrel life over possible accuracy gains, then you'll find other calibres that fill the bill. Look at the difference between a 6.5mmx284 and a 6.5mmx47 Lapua.


If you are getting into reloading, be sure not to focus all of your budget on the rifle and skimp on the basic reloading tools. A good scale, for example, is an extremly valuble tool for getting the powder charges right. Who cares if your $4000 rifle can shoot .50 MOA if your scale won't reliably measure the charges?


Good luck, and feel free to ask any questions. I was you, oh, about 1 year ago!
 
Your first rifle?
Your _really_ first rifle?

Get a good .22LR Srsly.

Spend a year shooting it at 200-300-500m. You'll spend less and gain a tonne of experience. You'll have a gun that you'll use for the rest of your life. And when you do finally wear it out (at around 100,000 rounds) [or more likely, when your grandkids finally wear it out] it'll have more than paid for itself.
 
For any new shooter getting into the sport of long range shooting that wants to compete, even if it is at the club level, you have 3 choices in caibers. A .223 and .308 will put you into the F/TR class. These 2 calibers have no problems reaching out to 1000 yards and beyond (I do not know of any competition in Canada that go beyond 1000 yards) Factory barrels in these two calibers will last 3000-5000 rounds before accuracy starts to go south. Both of these calibers have little to moderate recoil to allow a new shooter to concentrate more on shooting technique, instead of getting beat up by the rifle every time they squeeze the trigger. Ammo is easy to find if you need to purchase some for plinking and reloading is pretty cheap. I believe this class also still has to shoot off a front bipod.

The third caliber choice is "everything else". By choosing an "everything else" caliber this now puts a new shooter into the F/Open class. This puts you into the class with the guys shooting full custom rifles. And some have scopes that cost more than your whole entry level rig. Recoil may or may not be more, depending on the caliber and platform. Barrel life might only be one season as some of these calibers are shot out around 1200 rounds (at least for competition purposes). For reloading it is a must and you may also need to neck turn your cases. F/Open is usually shot off a front rest, figure another $200-$600 just for that. This really isn't the class for an entry level shooter to start off in.
 
maynard said:
For any new shooter getting into the sport of long range shooting that wants to compete, even if it is at the club level, you have 3 choices in caibers. A .223 and .308 will put you into the F/TR class. These 2 calibers have no problems reaching out to 1000 yards and beyond (I do not know of any competition in Canada that go beyond 1000 yards) Factory barrels in these two calibers will last 3000-5000 rounds before accuracy starts to go south. Both of these calibers have little to moderate recoil to allow a new shooter to concentrate more on shooting technique, instead of getting beat up by the rifle every time they squeeze the trigger. Ammo is easy to find if you need to purchase some for plinking and reloading is pretty cheap. I believe this class also still has to shoot off a front bipod.

The third caliber choice is "everything else". By choosing an "everything else" caliber this now puts a new shooter into the F/Open class. This puts you into the class with the guys shooting full custom rifles. And some have scopes that cost more than your whole entry level rig. Recoil may or may not be more, depending on the caliber and platform. Barrel life might only be one season as some of these calibers are shot out around 1200 rounds (at least for competition purposes). For reloading it is a must and you may also need to neck turn your cases. F/Open is usually shot off a front rest, figure another $200-$600 just for that. This really isn't the class for an entry level shooter to start off in.
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Maynard offers such good advice. :agree:

I never liked the .308, even with a brake. .223 you can shoot all day, same with .260. Now before putting the cart before the horse, forget about which rifle to buy for now, sign up for the winter program, try a few different rifles/calibers and see what works for YOU!

If you want round numbers for a entry level rifle, all the information on costs is out there, scopes run from $hundreds to $$$thousands. Then you can compare to a full blown custom rig, add in the cost of all the reloading components you will want/need to achieve good accuracy, the best scope you can afford with enough adjustment range. etc etc.

So lets sum up:

ORA Winter program
Interweb research
Live fire using different rifles/calibers
More Interweb Research
Then buy
 
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