NavyShooter
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Sourced from Lakeside Guns Forum:
If you have a ciener kit, it's worth the read.
NS
If you have a ciener kit, it's worth the read.
NS
>>>>>>
Kit tricks Part 1>
Date: 12/29/02 14:36
Hi all....Last week I had dug out my JAC 22 kit for the M16 and finally got
mad enough to get it to work. This is Part 1 of my findings on how to get
those things to run very well.
WARNING from the author!!! The following is just my opinion and should
NEVER be taken seriously. I'm just a back woods cheesehead that may have
just gotten lucky with this particular kit. The following could also just
simply be a wonderful dream.........
The first trick i have to share is to polish every surface that has moving
contact with another surface. One of the best materials to use for the
polishing is a product called Cratex. It is a rubberized abrasive that is
available in many different grits and forms. The Cratex product lines can be
found from MSC, J&L supply, Travers tool and many other industrial
suppliers. I have personally purchased many Cratex products off of E-Bay at
very reasonable prices.
If you own a dremel tool or a Foredom flex shaft grinder, you will make
short order of the polishing job on the 22 kits. A small mandrel mounted
polishing wheel in a fine grit will do all that is needed for this
project.
The Ceiner kits come parkerized or with an oxide finish from the factory. A
parkerized surface will tend to collect dirt and fowling very fast and will
gum up the kit prematurely. I polished all areas of my kit to eliminate dirt
from hanging up. The smooth polished surfaces also make the kit a snap to
clean when your done shooting. However, the surfaces left in the white are
now left bare and will easily rust if stored long term without oil.
Areas to concentrate on>>>
1-Rail surfaces. Any area that is guiding the bolt and anti-bounce weight.
2-Bolt rail slots. polish the inside of the slots where the guide rails
slide thru.
3-Anti bolt bounce weight. Polish all sufaces so this weight will slap
back and forth freely inside of the receiver when assembled.
4-Rear of the bolt. Polish the surface where the hammer makes contact when
the bolt is retracted
5-Hammer face. Polish the hammer face where it will contact the back of
the bolt.
6-Chamber insert feed ramp. This area is where the nose of your cartridge
will slide before entering the chamber.
7-Underside of the bolt. Polish the entire "rib" where the bolt would ride
over the cartridges still in the magazine when the bolt is retracted
rearward.
8-recoil spring guide rod. The guide rod on my kit was very rough. Polish
this rod to a smooth finish. This makes the spring and rod slide together
nicely inside of the bolt.
9-Extractor face. Polish the lead portion of the extractor that makes
contact with the chamber insert. For the best results drive the pin out that
holds the extractor in place and polish the sides as well. This extractor
must move freely inside of the bolt in order to hold the rim of the shell
correctly.
Part 2 coming soon..........stay tuned.......
Ceiner M16/22 Kit tricks Part 2 "bolt mods"
Posted By: ERIC
M16/22 Kit tricks Part 2 'bolt mods'>
Date: 12/29/02 15:53
In Response To: Ceiner M16/22 Kit tricks Part 1 (ERIC)
A few more little tricks to look into on the bolt and assembly of the
M16/22 kits are as follows.....
1- Check Extractor headspacing. ????What is that??..This is the gap the
extractor creates infront of the bolt face to allow the rim of the
cartridge to nest firmly in the face of the bolt. This trick is the first
step in controlling the spent empties ejection.
How do i check it???.....Remove your kit from your rifle and disassemble it
so you just have the bolt in your hand. Place a 22 cartridge in the "pocket"
that is milled into the face of the bolt. There should be NO slop between
the front of the rim of the cartridge and the extractor claw. In
otherwords, make sure the extractor is "pushing" the round to the side and
"holding" the rim inside of the little pocket. If this gap is excessive
the round will tend to fall out of this pocket and not be contacted
properly when the ejector hits it during operation. ***another easy check
is to hold the bolt up to the light and see if there is any gap between
the face of the bolt and the back of the extractor face....there should be
NONE!***
How do i fix this???....Make a note of the amount of exessive gap that is
needed to be taken up. Drive the retaining pin out of the bolt that is
holding in the extractor. Place the extractor in a solid vise with smooth
jaws. Gently bend the end of the extractor inward to close up this gap.
The extractor is relatively soft and can be bent quite easily. i used a
small pin punch and a light machinist hammer to do the job. Reassemble the
extractor and recheck the current extractor gap.
2- Firing pin face reduction. I reduced the face diameter of my firing pin
so that it would penetrate the rim deeper creating a more positive ignition.
The best form for the face of the pin is the shape of a small wedge.
*** The firing pin is held rearward inside the bolt by a very strong
spring. I tried a weeker firing pin spring but ended up breaking the pin
just after 1 magazine. However, when i took the spring out, I found it and
the pocket was caked full of carbon and didn't come out easily. I brushed
all the fowling out of the spring and pocket and it worked very well
again. It may be possible that a carboned up firing pin spring may
contribute to firing pin breakage.***
3- Ejector tab build up. i found on my kit that the ejector tab did not
stick out into the bolt enough to contact the empy case. i simply TIG welded
this area with buildup and machined it back down to size. With a properly gapped extractor
and a strong ejector tab, a spent case flies right out with little effort.
4-Excessive fowling in the chamber. I noticed that there was a massive
amount of gas blow back coming from a poor seal from the chamber insert.
Wasted gas was bleeding by the insert and finding it's way back inside of
the action. I tried wrapping a few rounds of teflon tape around the body
of the insert, but it soon blew out after just a few rounds. One quick
cure i found was to stack a series of O-rings inside of the locking lug
area of the barrel. When the chamber insert is assembled it seals itself
inside of the chamber. The sizes i used were 9/16" X 3/4" neoprene rubber
rings. There could easily be a better fitting set of rings or single ring,
but this is what i had laying around.
***Of course the barrels made by Kuel...sp?...would eliminate this problem
entirely.*** I also noticed that my chamber insert had a small bit of in
and out slop when assembled. The entire assmbly would move front to back
slightly when firing. The O-rings helped hold the conversion assembly
inplace alot tighter.
Part 3 will be posted soon..........
M16/22 Kit tricks Part 3'Mag mods'>
Date: 12/29/02 16:10
In Response To: Ceiner M16/22 Kit tricks Part 2 "bolt mods" (ERIC)
I'm going to cheat a bit and simply post a response given a week or so ago
from "The" man himself, Johnathan Arthur Ceiner.....This is probably the
most common problem I've heard of with the kits and it is explained pretty
well in JAC's response. However, not only do the feed lips need to be
centered, set to the correct gap and the mag adapter body be spread to
tightened up the fit in the lower, the feed lips also need to be checked
for the correct height. I found my magazines needed a "little taken off
the top" to work flawlessly. I checked this by putting a loaded magazine
in the lower and pulling the bolt back. I checked how high a round was
sticking up and how much the bolt was contacting this first round. I found
that the magazine lips could be reduced by quite a bit. All you need to
make sure of is have enough cartridge rim/bolt contact to ensure a round
will be stripped from the magazine. Theory>>The lower the feed lips, the
less chance of them becoming the ejector...................
>>>>>>>>
GIVEN you are using the proper quality and bullet weight of .22lr HIGH
VELOCITY ammunition...given that...Whenever the case is caught up in the
top of the receiver, between the charging handle and the recoil spring
tube of the bolt it is ONLT one thing - think about it - what causes the
spent cast to rotate out the ejection port of semi and full auto
firearms?...it's coming into contact with the EJECTOR!...it then ROTATES
around the extractor and vectors out the ejection port. If the feed lips of
the magazine get into the rearward path of the spent case THEY become the
ejector!...sending the case up rather than out to the right.
Due to use and abuse the upper sheet metal frame of the mags becomes
smaller or distorted allowing the mag to "flop" around left and right in the
mag well and the feed lips get into the spent cases's path. Just look at the
front corner of the rear lips and SEE the brass marks on the lip!!!
We use a piston ring expander pliers to widden the frame at it's 4 corners
so there is a light drag as the mag is inserted so as to limit it's
"flopping".
Other thing that happens, is the shooter holds onto the mag while shooting
causing it to sit too HIGH again putting the feed lips into the spent
casing's path.
Jonathan
Feed lips are to be PARALLEL, CENTERED in the upper frame, rear lips
.215-.005 wide...PERIOD. Front lips .250+.005. Remember PARALLEL and IN THE
CENTER. Use 40gr non-hollow point high velocity or have ammo induced
problems but don't blame the kit if you go against the manufacturer's
recommendations.
>>>>ABOVE QUOTE IF FROM SUBGUNS.COM REPLY FROM JAC<<<<<<<
Part 4 posting soon........
Kit tricks Part 4'last chapter'>
Date: 12/29/02 16:33
In Response To: Re: Ceiner M16/22 Kit tricks Part 3"Mag mods" (ERIC)
One of the problems I also found was a lubrication problem. If a light oil
is used, it accelerates the gumming effect. If graphite is used it gums up
less but is a messy situation all around. I ran this kit for over 700
rounds, as fast as i could load my mags, totally DRY......I basically had
gotten tired of loading mags and quit. these units run very well and are a
blast to shoot if you have the patience to fiddle with them.
Another observation with the kit was within the first few mags,
condensation forms inside of the receiver from the heat. The powder and
carbon builds up fast onto these wet areas inside of the receiver, but
eventually through my 700 round torture test it evaporated and i was
rippin rounds off again. When the kit is highly polished, it seems to self
clean and run alot longer.
I'm located in WI and for the most part have a massive difference in
weather from where most of you are from. The weather might play a factor in
how these things run.....sounds goofy, but may have some merit.
Well fellas, i hope by this point you have found the cure for your kit. To
this point my kit will run excellent with a 4.2" unported barrel and equally
as well with an 11" Integral suppressed barrel. The barrel lenght i have
works very well, so there should be no reason your longer lenghts
shouldn't. Hang in there, the kits do work!!..........ERIC
