I would question the professionalism of an individual endorsing a clamp on muzzle brake.
clamp on brakes vs threaded?
- Thread starter Kryogen
- Start date
- Location
- calgary alberta
Ok here we go right from the source.
"In the 35 plus years in this business I have yet to see a properly installed thread on brake negatively effect accuracy, they key words being properly installed. However I have seen several clamp on brake that have negatively effected accuracy as well as several that did not remain on the barrel during firing of the rifle.
Of the hundreds of thread on brakes we manufacture and install every year I have yet to hear of 1 where accuracy has declined."
I said nothing about " that machining the outside of a barrel has no affect on the internal dimensions"
But to clarify it for you as you want me to, I frankly do not believe that IF there is and dimensional change from carefully machining the end of a barrel it is not enough to be concerned about.
So then further exploring your theory should we be clamping on a chamber as well if best accuracy is desired? And does clamping pressure not also effect internal dimension at all?
I am simply asking as I am not a metalurgist.
I can only base my opinion on my experiences YMMV
Machining the outside changing the inside is a phenomena that few folks are aware of. I brought it up in this thread simply to help inform. If one has a precision accurate rig, they should know that threading the muzzle can, and in fact has in the past, affect accuracy of the rifle, adversely as it enlarges the bore.
Is this common? Obviously not common in your circles or among the guys who's barrels you thread.
Yes the chamber is also affected but microscopically altering dimensions of the chamber has a lot less affect on accuracy than altering the diameter of the muzzle. Brass forms the seal in the chamber, copper forms the seal in the bore..... another conversation....but for this conversation, the muzzle dimensions are the critical factor.
Threading on a brake, can hurt accuracy
Threading on a brake is a solid way to attach a brake, the best way to attach a brake in fact.
Clamping on a brake does not alter internal dimensions of the bore
Clamping on a brake is not always ideal as perfect fitment is substantially more difficult to obtain with clamping as opposed to threading, looks is not ideal, and yes they can and do move
Both Style of Brakes affect POI
I also am not a metallurgist. For this conversation I simply wanted to inform folks that machining the outside of a barrel does in fact affect internal dimensions of the bore, and has at times killed accuracy of fine barrels...... Its something that doesn't necessarily makes sense on its face, to some it is simply a theory, and to others hogwash.
My knowledge does not come from fitting and trying but comes from a family member who has worked for many years at Lothar Walther. Many hours of conversation with others who are experts in their field has taught me a lot. considering the source of my information, and considering its been confirmed by other friends in the industry, and knowing a few competitive shooters who have experienced this first hand.....leads me to believe its true. YFTBWYW (you're free to believe what you want)
arcticcathonda
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Southern Alberta
As did I worthy of a Sig line
- Location
- calgary alberta
Fair enough and thanks for the expanded explanation.
Several of the barrel manufacturers have some unusual theories or claims. Krieger for example is convinced that stainless steel barrels will catastrophically fail if shot in below zero temperatures.
I was told by the Lothar Walther guys that we should use their prefit barrels rather than cutting threads and chambers manually for the individual actions. Their claim was that they had more precise equipment and higher QC.
When I asked how they could accommodate for enlarged thread depth/tenon diameter on a 700 action that has been fully trued or how headspacing could be precise when recoil lug thickness varies as much as it does, the fellow and his boss were at a loss for words.
There certainly are a number of interesting theories floating around.
I DO however agree 110% with you about the POI change any muzzle device will create.
I am aware of it... apparently there is less effect on cut rifled barrels. I have turned both button rifled and cut rifled barrels down from 1.2 inch blanks... down to extremely light barrels for hunting rifles in hunting cartridges. 3 shot accuracy was still a little cluster under 1/2 inch most of the time... I know those barrels would have shot better as full blanks and it is hard to say what the main cause of decreased accuracy was - was it the tapered bore or the loss of mass and rigidity?
As for machining the end of a barrel and installing a brake - the tolerance changes within the barrel are so small it would take special equipment most gunsmiths do not have to measure it.
I have some Deltronic 'pins' made to an accuracy tolerance in the millionths... I have tried gently sliding correct sized ones through a bore... the vast majority of barrels are larger at the muzzle.
