Clarification Please

Nosler06

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I was reading another post and the person asked the same question that I have been wondering about. What is the difference between IMR powder and Hogdson H powder. Example IMR4350 and H4350 or IMR4895 and H4895. I really do not get it. Can someone or many help me to figure this out. I have always used IMR powder for my reloading because my dad and his friend have always used it and said there was no difference. I live in the Kootenays of British Columbia and face a wide difference in temperatures +40 c to
-20 c. Can this be a porblem for some powder to be used in this wide temp range?
 
IMR and H products are both made by Hodgdon. They are not quite the same. If you look at the reloading manuals, you will notice that for H and IMR powders of the same number can sometimes be close wrt powder charge. What is the real difference? I'm not sure.
 
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There are slight to significant burn rate differences between IMR and H powders. Some are very very close, others are dangerously far apart (if you mix them up). I have no idea why they used the same numbers.
 
I am gradually switching to H powders from IMR powders.

Like the OP I was "raised" on IMR powders, my dad and F-in-law still use them and wouldn't consider changing.

But I started experimenting and I saw some pretty extreme changes to groups in relation to temp with all of my IMR loads.

I switched to H-4895 from IMR 4895 adjusted load via a ladder test and I wasn't seeing the large variation in group size. There was a bit of one, but not nearly quite as large.

I'm a believer.
YMMV
 
I was using both IMR and H powders. I did what you are presently doing, switched to using H only. The reason seems to be the same as you too...more consistent with changes in ambient temperatures. I found this to be especially true with going from IMR-4350 to H-4350. Then I went from IMR-4831 to H-4831SC because I found it pours better than IMR and gave more temperature stable results. As for 4895, I have always used H. I sometimes use Varget, but I have no idea what the IMR equivalent is (or if there is even one).
 
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Hodgdon does not manufacture any powders. They are a distributor.

Some "H" powders are made in Australia by ADI (Australian Defense Industries), especially marketed as "Extreme" and are "temperature insensitive" to a certain point, anyways, less sensitive than most other powders.

IMR powders are made in Canada (General Dynamics in Valleyfield, Qc) and are about the same as when they were made by DuPont.

Now, as history goes; Hodgdon bought large supplies of ex-military gun powders and these were sold by their original names; i.e. say 4831. These powders were not that young and have slightly changed burning rate from aging. When his stocks dried out, Hodgdon had it "copied" by another manufacturer (not DuPont), then, they copied the actual powders, not the original recipes / propoerties of the old powders. He then kept the H-4831 name.

When DuPont saw the advantage of selling powders to the general public, they re-introduced the "original" (well, at least as close as they could) powders, they used the original name, hence the IMR 4831 powder.

As a conclusion; IMR and H powders, while close, have different burning rates and can't be considered the same. That's why Hodgdon kept both of them. Both brand of powders are excellent products, as long as you can live with their own properties.
Personally, in some cases I use "H" powders (my varmint guns, as an example) for use in cold weather or very hot temps, but usually I don't care for my big game rifles.
Just remember; never develop a hot load under cold weather, with whatever powders. Even with "Extreme" powders, you may have a surprise if you shoot these loads in a torrid summer day.
 
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IMR powders are made in Canada (General Dynamics in Valleyfield, Qc) and are about the same as when they were made by DuPont.

And I frustratingly drive right by the plant on my way to Higginson's. The map view is interesting: maps.google.ca/maps?q=45.288414,-74.082706&hl=en&num=1&t=h&z=15
 
Yes, that's a big plant. Same goes for GD plants in Legardeur and St-Augustin-de-Desmaures.
 
Baribal, thanks for the information. I always wondered and now I have an explanation.

As for IMR I only use Trail Boss and SR-4759; both mostly for cast bullet loads. I haven't found any other powder from any other manufacturer that is similar to either.
 
Okay, now here is a dilema. I have looked through my Nosler#6 manual and would'nt you know it both the .308 and 30-06 load data show absolutely no data for any "H" (Hodgdon) powder. Does this mean that Nosler does not reccommend using any "H" powder in these cartridges. Does Nosler not have any authority to publish or use "H" powders? I know that I am not able to directly cross over IMR4895 powder loads to H4895 for my .308 and neither my IMR4350 powder loads to H4350 in my 30-06. How do I obtain load data for Nosler bullets with "H" powders? I am going to have to dig up my dad's very old Speer manual to see if there is anything there. This is why reloading is so much fun. The research never ends. Thus keeping me on my mental sharpness. Any suggestions?
 
Okay, now here is a dilema. I have looked through my Nosler#6 manual and would'nt you know it both the .308 and 30-06 load data show absolutely no data for any "H" (Hodgdon) powder. Does this mean that Nosler does not reccommend using any "H" powder in these cartridges. Does Nosler not have any authority to publish or use "H" powders? I know that I am not able to directly cross over IMR4895 powder loads to H4895 for my .308 and neither my IMR4350 powder loads to H4350 in my 30-06. How do I obtain load data for Nosler bullets with "H" powders? I am going to have to dig up my dad's very old Speer manual to see if there is anything there. This is why reloading is so much fun. The research never ends. Thus keeping me on my mental sharpness. Any suggestions?

I use H-4895 in my .308 win. For a 150-155 gr bullet use 44.0 to 45.0 gr of powder. 45.0 gr is getting towards the hot side (in my gun at least)
 
Often, it's a marketing thing. We never know the reality of commercial alliances and all other details around it.
As I previously often pointed, the rifght manual(s) for the right components is a good way to start, especially if you have no idea of the average load you should use. If Nosler doesn't have the load for the powder you think is best, go to the powder manufacturer or distributor's manual.
 
I have found some very interesting sites that have some very interesting data. Here is a couple that I have found.

http://www.hodgdon.com/smokeless/extreme/page2.php#top

http://www.noslerreloading.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=75196&sid=9ff766c7a030f231f32f56d5a1ee89fb

I am very much leaning towards a full change of both rifles to "H" powders. 30-06 to H4350 and .308 to H4895. The fun part with be coming up with the right load data as Nosler does not have any published data for "H" powder loads for either. It makes a great starting point when you look in the NOsler #6 manual and it tells you what was the most accurate load that they found for that powder type. It makes it easier to fine tune things from there.
 
... I have looked through my Nosler#6 manual and would'nt you know it both the .308 and 30-06 load data show absolutely no data for any "H" (Hodgdon) powder....

My No.5 Nosler Manual is chock-full of "H" loads, and contains several for both the 308 and 30-06.

Best guess ... somebody aggravated somebody else business-wise !
 
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