Clarification the new regulations starting MAY 18 2022

NCressman said:
I was referring to the divide between the info CSAAA was provided on the 24th and the text of the act.

CSAAA was assured that there wouldn't be a record requirement, from their posts on social media.

So I guess the government just straight up lied to CSAAA?
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Nope, the government allegedly said that 'Businesses will not be required to enter any firearm specific information when transferring a non-restricted firearm.'

So the business does not need ot enter this information into the business records. HOWEVER, the regulations coming into force state:

For the purposes of the issuance of a reference number under section 23 of the Act, the transferor must

(a) confirm, when making a request referred to in paragraph 23(1)(b) of the Act to the Registrar, that they have taken reasonable steps to verify that the transferee is the holder of the licence, including
(i) in the case of a transfer that is completed in person, whether in whole or in part, by comparing the photograph on the licence with the person presenting themselves as the transferee, and
(ii) in all other cases,
(A) by using the method set out in paragraph (a), or
(B) if the comparison cannot be undertaken using that method, by comparing the information on the transferee’s licence with that on another piece of photo identification that has been issued by the Government of Canada or a provincial or municipal government; and
(b) provide the Registrar with
(i) the transferee’s licence number, and
(ii) any other information requested by the Registrar.
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I have a feeling that the Registrar will be requesting information about the firearm subject to the transfer each and every time.

For those that are having debates about whether or not these new requirements constitute a registry of non restricted firearm transfers, consider this:

In 2012, when the Government eliminated the requirement to register Non-restricted firearms, it enacted the Firearm Information Regulations (non-restricted firearms). https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/SOR-2012-138/FullText.html

These regulations were necessary in order to prohibit anyone from making or keeping records related to the transfer of non restricted firearms.

The government, through these regulations, are now repealing those regulations, thus enabling people to once again make and keep records of Non-restricted transfers. Thus, its a registry. Its just not a centralized registry of current registration records, its a decentralized registry of transfer records. But its clearly a registry
 
canadaman30 said:
Back door registry through OIC. Trudeau's public safety Minister is a liar POS
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When you say "through OIC" it gives the impression this was done like the May 1 Gun Ban, which is not the case. Yes, an OIC was used to bring these regulations into force (that's what OICs are normally used for) but the regulations themselves are part of c71 which passed through all the normal things legislation needs to get through to become law.

NCressman said:
I was referring to the divide between the info CSAAA was provided on the 24th and the text of the act.

CSAAA was assured that there wouldn't be a record requirement, from their posts on social media.

So I guess the government just straight up lied to CSAAA?
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I'm not sure I follow? This is part of c71. Which received Royal Assent in June 2019. The CSAAA has had plenty of time to read that law I would think?
 
From what I understand businesses are required to record firearm info into their registry along with your info. But when they call for the reference number they’re only going to be asked about the license info, so your name, license number, date and city of birth. So there will still be a registry but it’s going to be patchwork and stored at the business only to be accessed by warrant or the business closing. Hopefully what we see when businesses close is they transfer their stock which should transfer their registry to another business and the government has to go through a court to access records.
 
RyoTHC said:
I guess everyone is just glossing over bullet D that straight up turns this into the registry?


2) The business must record and, for a period of 20 years from the day on which the business transfers a non-restricted firearm, keep the following information in respect of the transfer:
(a) the reference number issued by the Registrar;
(b) the day on which the reference number was issued;
(c) the transferee's licence number; and
(d) the firearm's make, model and type and, if any, its serial number.
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This never went away with the long gun registry. They've always had to keep this info but it used to be until the business closed and their books were to be turned over to the CFO.
 
Suther said:
When you say "through OIC" it gives the impression this was done like the May 1 Gun Ban, which is not the case. Yes, an OIC was used to bring these regulations into force (that's what OICs are normally used for) but the regulations themselves are part of c71 which passed through all the normal things legislation needs to get through to become law.
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The may gun ban is a regulation issued under the authority of the criminal code, which is legislation that went through all the normal processes to become law.
The problem with the may gun ban OiC, and there are many, is that the substance of the may 1 gun ban and its rationale is flawed. There is nothing with with the fact that the goverment proclaimed the May 1 gun banning regulations by OiC.



I'm not sure I follow? This is part of c71. Which received Royal Assent in June 2019. The CSAAA has had plenty of time to read that law I would think?
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Bill C71 received royal assent in June, yes. The problem was that Bill C71 made numerous references to things that would be done by regulations. The Committee for bill C71 asked to see the proposed regulations that would come into force with Bill C71 and the government refused claiming that the regulations hadn't been written yet.

This OiC brings into force portions of Bill C71, but it also now, for the first time, publishes and will bring into force the regulations that will be issued under the Firearms Act as amended by Bill C71. So the regulations are new, and that is causing all the concern.

For example, the government claimed that the legislation does not require anyone to provide any information about firearms to the registrar when asking for a transfer number. It was pointed out at the time that this was a disingenuous move by government as the legislation did state "and any other information prescribed by regulations or requested by the registrar". The regulations clearly prescribe that information about the firearms is to be collected, and the government is also repealing the prohibition on the collection of information related to NR transfers.

Classic bait and switch.
 
Petrock said:
This never went away with the long gun registry. They've always had to keep this info but it used to be until the business closed and their books were to be turned over to the CFO.
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Incorrect.

Businesses have not been required to keep exact records of their Non Restricted firearm inventory, by the CFO, since 2012. The Harper government in 2012 brought in regulations that explicitly forbade the keeping of such information by anyone, at least insofar as it related to the transfer of NR firearms. I'm sure lots of Dudely Do Good gun owners, in a delusional act of 'Due Dilligence', violated this law.

Many businesses would have kept records of their inventory, just out of good business management practices, and also for insurance purposes. Businesses would also have needed to satisfy themselves that their customers were properly licensed, but were under no obligation to record their efforts to confirm licenses.

RyoTHC said:
I guess everyone is just glossing over bullet D that straight up turns this into the registry?


2) The business must record and, for a period of 20 years from the day on which the business transfers a non-restricted firearm, keep the following information in respect of the transfer:
(a) the reference number issued by the Registrar;
(b) the day on which the reference number was issued;
(c) the transferee's licence number; and
(d) the firearm's make, model and type and, if any, its serial number.
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Actually, its all of them together that makes it a registry. Well B is probably not that important.

But A is the transaction number, and the records kept under is what will link the buyers license number to a specific serial number.

This is where the Canadian manufacturers need to do themselves a favour and stop putting serial numbers on firearms.

There is no requirement in canadian law for firearms to have serial numbers, and therefore no good reason for any of our domestic manufacturers to putting serial numbers on firearms.
 
So what happens if you order something, say today.. and the retailer takes several days to process it because of the increase in business, say it ships after the 18, now what? If it’s in stock and purchased today, does that mean it goes by todays rules no matter when it’s shipped? Retailer claims they don’t charge the card until it ships.. this could get dicey for some.
 
Beeron said:
If I build a 10/22 up from parts, what part is the firearm?
Say I buy all of the following from separate vendors:
Receiver
Barrel
Bolt
Trigger group
magazine?

To which of those purchases would my purchase(s) be subject to the new regulation on May 18th?

Anyone?
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Same as what is the firearm now: the receiver. The rest are unregulated.
 
RyoTHC said:
So what happens if you order something, say today.. and the retailer takes several days to process it because of the increase in business, say it ships after the 18, now what? If it’s in stock and purchased today, does that mean it goes by todays rules no matter when it’s shipped? Retailer claims they don’t charge the card until it ships.. this could get dicey for some.
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To my knowledge, the legal meaning of the word "transfer" has never been interpreted in order to declare when the actual legal transfer is happening.

As the Firearms Act and criminal code are primarily concerned with POSESSION, rather than OWNERSHIP, a reasonable interpretation of 'transfer' would place the date of 'transfer' on the date that the firearm transfers POSSESSION, Ie the day the seller gives it to you, rather than the date it transfers OWNERSHIP, which is the the day you make the contract for sale, ie placing order, paying money.

Also, while this is not an identical consideration, be mindful that the CFOs approved the 'transfer' of prohibited firearms to people who do not hold prohibited licenses, because they had applied for the transfer of a restricted firearm, before it was deemed prohibited by the May 1st gun ban.

the CFOs determined to consider the eligibility of the person requesting the transfer based on the date the application was made, rather than the date the application was considered. This is clearly unlawful. I suspect that it was a decision to ignore the law because it gave the benefit of the doubt to those who had applied for the firearm in good faith, but in the end it only screwed them and placed them in legal limbo.

Also, the Registrar refused to issue any registration certificates for these newly prohibited firearms, which by law, invalidates the transfer.

The government had to amend the amnesty regulations in order to extend the amnesty to these people who were not originally covered. Regardless, these individuals have not been lawfully transferred the firearm, and they are unregistered, but they are the legal owner.

The moral of the story is the law is stupid, written by stupid people, administered by stupid people, and enforced by stupid people. You ask a fair question, but not one can provide an answer for you, or guarantee that what will happen won't be stupid.
 
Beeron said:
If I build a 10/22 up from parts, what part is the firearm?
Say I buy all of the following from separate vendors:
Receiver
Barrel
Bolt
Trigger group
magazine?

To which of those purchases would my purchase(s) be subject to the new regulation on May 18th?

Anyone?
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Just the receiver.

Once you assemble them into a whole firearm, if you attempt to transfer that whole firearm to someone else, then ALL of the parts become to subject to the regulations, as parts of a whole firearm. Alternatively, if you strip the whole firearm down to the receiver, and tried to sell the parts, then only the receiver would be subject to the regulations.
 
Cameron SS said:
Just the receiver.

Once you assemble them into a whole firearm, if you attempt to transfer that whole firearm to someone else, then ALL of the parts become to subject to the regulations, as parts of a whole firearm. Alternatively, if you strip the whole firearm down to the receiver, and tried to sell the parts, then only the receiver would be subject to the regulations.
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So what we really have are pre-May 18 receivers and post-May 18 receivers, then. I can see the used market contracting slightly as people hold on to their untracked rifles, shortly before being overrun by idiots trying to cash in because "they know what they got".
 
So what if I want to lend someone my firearm. No money transaction and I still own it. How long can I lend it for?
Also I would like to borrow some firearms as well, for an extended period of time.
 
mac100 said:
So what if I want to lend someone my firearm. No money transaction and I still own it. How long can I lend it for?
Also I would like to borrow some firearms as well, for an extended period of time.
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I think everyone will make a lot of new friends at gun shows and will be lending their firearms with a rent fee.Laugh2
 
mac100 said:
So what if I want to lend someone my firearm. No money transaction and I still own it. How long can I lend it for?
Also I would like to borrow some firearms as well, for an extended period of time.
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There is no limit to how long you can lend or borrow a gun. If you ever ended up infront of a judge it might not be a very good defense though depending on the circumstances.... You can probably make someone believe you're just borrowing buddies gun that you hunt with yearly, Id think it's going to be an uphill battle to convince anyone you "borrowed" a gun from a guy 2 provinces over 3 years ago and haven't talked to sice?....
 
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