CLASSIFIED! Beretta ARX160-22 AND ARX100
- Thread starter fenceline
- Start date
- Location
- East of Home, West of the Rest
Maybe they are taking the semi auto upper and attaching it to the lower from a full auto? Would that be enough in some of these cases to make these guns be full auto? Because of the capability of the lowers to assist in that function?
Not just parts, but a whole lower. I know that lower wouldn't be regulated, but would it change function?
This was exactly a case they tried to apply to the Swiss Arms of rifles, one can modify the upper receiver, which is the regulated part, and force drop in a lower select fire control group. Then with RCMP monkey magic, make the gun go select fire even though it requires machining work with unobtainium parts.
If this is truly a case to be made, anything that can be modified to install a full auto fire control group is a prohibited firearm.
I can see them pushing this to all the guns with a serialized upper receiver for a future ban, ACR, G36 SL8, UMP USC, XCR, SG54X and the list goes on...
- Location
- East of Home, West of the Rest
That wasn't what the Swiss Arms reclassification revolved around. That wasn't an issue of function prohibition, but lineage prohibition. The claim is the Swiss Arms is a variant of the 550 series which is named prohibited.
Nothing to do with whether convertable to full auto.
Nothing to do with whether convertable to full auto.
The investigation was triggered by TSE claiming that CSC imported rifles were originally Stgw.90 select fire rifles built into PE90s. But it came back around that their rifles were perfectly legal semi only PE90s, and that the TSE original imports was in fact semi auto Stgw.90/SG550s. Then it all sadly dwelled into, that all the Swiss Arms rifles are all based off the SG550 mess, not the SG540 which are legal.
Call this guy to complain. (politely)
Here is the guy to complain to. If you got time to troll and pester people on here you can pester him.
Mr. Lyndon Murdock (Director, Firearms and Operational Policing Policy, Department of Public Safety
I am not happy either, I wanted one... This obsession with "full auto" is so stupid. No one in recent memory has been murdered with a gun converted to full auto.
PS in no way am I saying anyone should harass him or use ungentlemanly language. SERIOUS.
Here is the guy to complain to. If you got time to troll and pester people on here you can pester him.
Mr. Lyndon Murdock (Director, Firearms and Operational Policing Policy, Department of Public Safety
I am not happy either, I wanted one... This obsession with "full auto" is so stupid. No one in recent memory has been murdered with a gun converted to full auto.
PS in no way am I saying anyone should harass him or use ungentlemanly language. SERIOUS.
- Location
- East of Home, West of the Rest
Right. Claimed full auto, found not to be, but found as a consequence to be variants of a named gun. Both csc and Tse versions. All affected swiss arms. Back in the day TSE claimed they were 540 variants, and provided documents to support that claim. The lab reviewed the documents and provided a classification as was the practice in the day.
When Tse complained, the lab actually examined the guns and after physically reviewing them found them to be 550 variants. At the same time the Famae 540 were at the lab pending their classification. The had them side by side just by chance.
Complained about full auto apples, found prohib by variant oranges.
What triggered the investigation wasn't, in the end, what they based the reclassification on.
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Oh here is more information
Lyndon
Last name
Murdock
Title
Director
Telephone Number
613-991-3223
Alternate Number
Fax Number
Email
Street Address
269 LAURIER AVE WEST (view on map)
Country
Canada
Province
Ontario
City
Ottawa
Postal Code
K1A 0P8
Department
PS-SP
Public Safety Canada
Organization
FIR-DIV
FIREARMS & OPERATIONAL POLICING POLICY DIRECTORATE
Lyndon
Last name
Murdock
Title
Director
Telephone Number
613-991-3223
Alternate Number
Fax Number
Street Address
269 LAURIER AVE WEST (view on map)
Country
Canada
Province
Ontario
City
Ottawa
Postal Code
K1A 0P8
Department
PS-SP
Public Safety Canada
Organization
FIR-DIV
FIREARMS & OPERATIONAL POLICING POLICY DIRECTORATE
More importantly not a single licensed legal firearms owner in Canada has ever converted a rifle to full auto. Never, ever! So i dont understand why this is something thats a factor in any decision where it comes to lawful firearms purchases and ownership. If they are trying to prevent criminals from having full auto weapons, really? like really? Thats like trying to stop the Niagara falls from flowing!
I will strongly discourage anyone from sending email to the person above. Sending unsolicited ranting to a bureaucrat will just annoy the person and your email will be duly ignored.
This kind of things need to have the importers work together - the FN, beretta and Cz importers. They need to appoint one representative who is proficient in legislation and firearms design to deal with it. Someone who is able to articulate the argument with both legal and technical merits.
This kind of things need to have the importers work together - the FN, beretta and Cz importers. They need to appoint one representative who is proficient in legislation and firearms design to deal with it. Someone who is able to articulate the argument with both legal and technical merits.
I agree with Green Tip 100%. I talked to Colt about that last weekend and it's a knife edge of conflict they don't want to walk. That maybe different for importers because it kills their business.
Please note that I did not encourage rude or abusive inquiry to the Gent listed above for all we know he maybe some gun nut too and his boss has hog tied him.
Please note that I did not encourage rude or abusive inquiry to the Gent listed above for all we know he maybe some gun nut too and his boss has hog tied him.
I'm not sure I agree with that !!! I'd say it's time these bureacrats know how unhappy us legal firearms owners are with the constant
Miss guided proposed and currant laws that are forced upon us. Sitting back and letting others that don't give a chit fight for our rights had got us no where so far and the cpc ain't gonna save us so ..... I say hammer them guys with everything we got before its to late. Who cares if there feathers get ruffled.
Frankly, from what I've seen, they take enjoyment from it. Disgusting I know, but don't feed the career trolls.
Besides, they're Bureaucrats. They're not answerable to you, they have no reason to care about what you think, and likely look at you with disdain. The only way to beat them is to go over their heads, to their elected bosses, who at least have a reason to hear you out.
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A lot of what I hypothesize is just that a guess. But I can tell you right now they do care what you think. If you are a mechanic and get a letter from a customer saying that you are lazy, and do your job poorly and all your coworkers read that letter... trust me you will go home that night and be pissed and the next day. Civil servants careers are based around opinions and perception. When Bob Smith on here posts a public letter saying Jim at the gun lab is a feckless fool you know who starts backing away from Jim, his boss and his bosses boss. Call the guy I mentioned and complain. I ask about this ARX 2 years ago and he refused to comment... there is something not right. He was very uneasy.
This is assuming that a government bureaucracy functions like a business in a marketplace. I would submit that it does not.
Office of the Auditor General of Canada - an audit of their classification policy and process will clear a few things. This will usually include a review of the qualification of the people involved, and the "logic" of their decisions.
If you want to write a letter, write a letter to the Auditor General of Canada : Michael Ferguson Ask him to do an audit. Maybe if enough people are writing to him, it may happen n 2016/17
If you want to write a letter, write a letter to the Auditor General of Canada : Michael Ferguson Ask him to do an audit. Maybe if enough people are writing to him, it may happen n 2016/17
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There's an idea!
Bureaucrats only feel the pressure when their performance or their department performance metrics are affected, and this is how you can affect their performance metrics by petitioning the AG to do an audit:
Consultants paid and consultants ( or AG ) say so, and the boss is told to implement the consultant's or AG's recommendation, and the boss has to fill out little "green dots" on the spread sheet that tracks their progress in implementing the recommendations, with a deadline to fill out all the green dots.
And if you know of the existence of such "consultant or AG reports", you can grab it and use it to harass the politicians. The politicians will then have to harass the ministry eventually.
It is all "technical", no "politics" there.
Consultants paid and consultants ( or AG ) say so, and the boss is told to implement the consultant's or AG's recommendation, and the boss has to fill out little "green dots" on the spread sheet that tracks their progress in implementing the recommendations, with a deadline to fill out all the green dots.
And if you know of the existence of such "consultant or AG reports", you can grab it and use it to harass the politicians. The politicians will then have to harass the ministry eventually.
It is all "technical", no "politics" there.
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