Close range polar bear rifle

kamlooky said:
A while back I was sent an email with a few photos of a polar bear chasing a whitey
around a pick up truck. I was just curious as to how he got himself out of that pickle?
The chap circling around the truck managed to stay almost direct opposite the fur ball,
but for the life of me couldn't see how he managed to open a door or whether the one with the camera shot the blasted polar bear?
Or did the chap drop and roll?
Another story about a gal here locally was laying by her inground pool suntanning and
fell asleep. She woke up to something licking her. A black bear took the notion to start
licking the sun tan lotion off her back. She rolled into the pool to get away.
This is a true story, I kid you not. :)
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I haven't heard the suntan story before, but its plausible enough. The pics of the photographer and the bear was posted on here a while back, and it was determined that the incident took place in Alaska, we know it wasn't Churchill because no one here recognized the truck. Finally the truck's plate gave it away. As I recall, the fellow and the bear escaped unscathed.
 
sobo4303 said:
Maybe someone can enlighten me a bit.

My 30-06 with factory win ammo (180 grain bullet) has higher velocity resulting in potent energy muzzle than the 45-70 ammo. Now if I buy the ammo with a 220 gr bullet, it is even higher than the 45-70.

The 45-70 is better....how? Other than my 30-06 holds five in the magazine as opposed to Marlins 4 or guidegun 6, how does the 45-70 rank higher? {lease enlighten.

I agree with the conservation officers, 30-06 all the way.
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Pretty much:

-The heavier bullets have less of a tendancy to glance of bone, instead breaking them and carrying on, especially with a flat nose, disabling a charge.(flesh wound only still has potential to carry on)

-Higher velocities tend to cause bullets to rip themselves apart due to friction of hitting the flesh/fluid dynamics, etc. As a result slower bullets tend to penetrate better than faster bullets of an equal(or greater) energy.(I've heard the 'magic number' is 1600fps at impact...never read anything scientific on it though).

-The 45-70 uses a .458 diameter bullet which is larger than a .308 bullet expanded, meaning even un-expanded it's leaving a big bloody hole. In addition using a non-expanding/not as high expansion bullet will allow greater weight retention when it hits bone(won't break up). A fragmented bullet is a slow kill.

Those are the main points really. You can argue semantics both ways, but overall I think the non-expanding bullet vs. bone is what does it for most people. The flat nosed bullet also helps with it not glancing of bone.

As a note to mag size, from fist hand accounts getting 2 shots off is likely the best you're getting to disable the mobility of the bear/kill it.
 
Your bolt action 30-06 will do the job very well actually it used to be rated in the top 10 best cartridges for grizzly charge stopping rounds by the Alaskan Wildlife branch and that was before the surge of the new premium bullets.

It just doesn't rate as high as the 45-70 there is nothing like a big wide meplat bullet to create huge wound cavities/break big bone/penetrate deeper than anything else out there.

I load 200gr Swift A-Frames @ 2400fps in my 20" barreled Rem 700 LSS in 30-06 & 525gr - 550gr hard cast gas checked wide meplat bullets in my 18.5" Marlin 1895GS in 45-70.

Both will work the 45-70 just works better if you are only talking thin skinned black bears your 30-06 is perfect and I load 350gr Swift A-Frames in my 45-70 for them...
 
Camp Cook said:
I'm curious what you mean by the term "whitey"
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I guess I could of used the words, gent, chap, fellow, fella, skaredy pants,
runner, etc, etc.
My native neighbour calls me whitey and that's the word that came out
my finger tips when typing the note.
No racism intended.................:wave:
 
The .30-06 would be a fine choice for actually hunting a bear, regardless of what the magazines say it hasn't gotten any less powerful nor have bears become bulletproof all of a sudden. At tent defense ranges, I'd definitely want controlled expansion! That way even if the bullet does fail in its expansion (over-expands or sheds too much of the frontal portion - that same bullet was likely designed to expand reliably when fired from a .308 at 400 yards), the shank is still going to keep pushing through to brain or vitals or whatever. Either that or use the good old 220 grain weight in the tent, as they work pretty good and seem to be designed for use at .30-06 velocities.

The attractiveness of the .45-70 is weight and frontal area. Big, heavy bullets will have no problems displacing tissue and creating a large wound channel, and with the lower velocity range taken into account when engineering bullets for the .45-70 they generally shouldn't have the over-expansion problem that a close-range .30-06 might. Big holes are a good thing when the deck is stacked against you.

I'd prefer a .45-70 in the tent for that reason, but would gladly use a .30-06 to hunt. Or just split the difference and do like Geologist did, a CRF .375 H&H with good sights is hard to beat.

Bear in mind (lol pun) I've never shot anything larger than a big blackie so I could be talking entirely out of my ass here, please correct me if I'm wrong on this.
 
philthygeezer said:
You reckon those Leverevolution .45-70 rounds are any good?
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I've never done a penetration test with them, but because I don't like the idea of them, I haven't given them much of a test. When its cold out and that tip stiffens up, it means you are using the equivalent of a Ballistic Tip in a tube magazine. No thanks. Would it work on a bear? Well as a pal of mine used to say, "It won't do em any good!" But IMHO they are an unproven entity for use in a situation where you get one chance to get it right; where a .458/480 gr WFN at 1850 or better, will solve the problem.
 
I am now loading the 325gr FTX in my 22" barreled T/C Contender carbine I haven't chrono'ed them yet so can only guess they are doing 1900fps they going to be my hunt everything bullet and are very accurate out of this rifle.

I do not plan on using them for bear defense though I have 420gr WLNGC's @ 1600fps loaded for that.
 
Boomer: I hadn't thought of the cold hardening the tips. I'll pass the word around to a few arctic friends. That's a good point. Pun horribly intended.
 
Camp Cook said:
I am now loading the 325gr FTX in my 22" barreled T/C Contender carbine I haven't chrono'ed them yet so can only guess they are doing 1900fps they going to be my hunt everything bullet and are very accurate out of this rifle.

I do not plan on using them for bear defense though I have 420gr WLNGC's @ 1600fps loaded for that.
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This is where I start to wonder if I shouldn't just be happy with the Encore for everything and use a 26" .375 HH bbl where the bears get predatory... I love the little Contender but I could stick to 24" barrels on the Pro Hunter and only gain a pound or so.
 
philthygeezer said:
This is where I start to wonder if I shouldn't just be happy with the Encore for everything and use a 26" .375 HH bbl where the bears get predatory... I love the little Contender but I could stick to 24" barrels on the Pro Hunter and only gain a pound or so.
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I completely understand what you are thinking I just about went that way as well except I would shorten the Encore/Prohunter barrel in 375H&H to 21" - 22" I would load 300gr bullets @ 2450fps but my do everything bullet of choice for this combo would be the new Barnes 250gr TTSX @ 2650fps - 2700fps = one bullet/load for everything and any situation you will ever encounter in North America...

I have been looking for a 375 cal rifle/cartridge combo that would give me velocities that are 1/2 way between my Contender carbine 375JDJ = 260gr Accubonds @ 2300fps and my 21" barreled Rem 700 LSS in 375RUM = 260gr Accubonds @ 3020fps.

This Encore/Prohunter combo would give me exactly what I am looking for it is such a good idea actually that I may still do this someday I'd mount a VX3 2.5-8X36mm B&C scope with Leupold QRW quick detachable rings so I can go to iron sights if I wanted...

CC
 
burnt_servo said:
so the polar bear looks at the "canned human " like someone starving in a 3rd world country would look at a can of pork and beans ....... :D :D :D
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Yes, but they don't have thumbs to work the can opener...
Sure they could crush the drum flat, but then they could only drink the juice that leaks out.
 
kamlooky said:
I guess I could of used the words, gent, chap, fellow, fella, skaredy pants,
runner, etc, etc.
My native neighbour calls me whitey and that's the word that came out
my finger tips when typing the note.
No racism intended.................:wave:
Click to expand...

My people prefer the term "Pigmentally Challenged"
 
I will argue that some folks pick their spots when arguing about the 45/70, I am a 30-06 fan myself and like mine, but it is not even close to the power of the 45/70 when loaded for "bear". 480 and 500gr. wide flat points at 1800-1900fps put the 45/70 just behind the .458 but in a quicker, lighter, easier to load package. I'm just getting over the headache from shooting mine the other day. Having said all that, I wouldn't take a 45/70 into bear country if i had to use factory ammo.
 
Camp Cook said:
I completely understand what you are thinking I just about went that way as well except I would shorten the Encore/Prohunter barrel in 375H&H to 21" - 22" I would load 300gr bullets @ 2450fps but my do everything bullet of choice for this combo would be the new Barnes 250gr TTSX @ 2650fps - 2700fps = one bullet/load for everything and any situation you will ever encounter in North America...

I have been looking for a 375 cal rifle/cartridge combo that would give me velocities that are 1/2 way between my Contender carbine 375JDJ = 260gr Accubonds @ 2300fps and my 21" barreled Rem 700 LSS in 375RUM = 260gr Accubonds @ 3020fps.

This Encore/Prohunter combo would give me exactly what I am looking for it is such a good idea actually that I may still do this someday I'd mount a VX3 2.5-8X36mm B&C scope with Leupold QRW quick detachable rings so I can go to iron sights if I wanted...

CC
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I've got a 26" H&H and recently bought a ProHunter barrel as well. I could shorten up the former but I've decided I pretty much don't like muzzle blast. I'll put up with 5-8" more bbl to have the noise that much farther away from me.

However, I also had a goal to have a modular kit that would go anywhere. Even considering above, I could shorten the former barrel to 24" and have a kit of .22LR, .223 Rem, .30-06, .375 H&H and 12 gauge all in a two foot case with two stocks. Lots of redundant parts and it would travel very well as a two rifle kit.

I like small short scopes for small short rifles so it would be FX2.5mmx20, M8 4x28mm compact and rimfire, FX4x33mm, and VX3 1.5-5x20mm scopes for me. Same detachable rings though.

One could live pretty compact and light with just an Encore and 20 and 12 gauge Beretta 686s. However, life without a few bolts, levers and semis would be too simple!
 
A pal of mine works as a guide and packs a full length 602 in .375 H&H with a muzzle brake, bringing the barrel length close to 28". He claims that for him it points better than a short barreled rifle does and he further claims he has never experienced any disadvantage with it in heavy cover, which I often bring up as an advantage of my short rifles. I had occasion one to grab that rifle and subsequently fired it without giving the brake it's due consideration. Now I like rifles with short barrels and I like rifles with long barrels, but I hate breaks. With respect to the blast associated with short barrels, short being 20" or so, I find the wind is a big part of the discomfort one might experience. Shooting with the wind at your back is fine, but shooting into the wind can hurt, but nothing like shooting a braked rifle without protection.
 
I can't see firing a rifle with any muzzle brake without hearing protection, even in the field. I greatly prefer a normal short barrel/muzzle for field rifles.

LE No.5, 14" HP9-1, 20" BRNO 602, Marlin 1895GS. See a common thread in my working rifles?

Hunting rifle 24" BRNO 600.
 
Boomer said:
A pal of mine works as a guide and packs a full length 602 in .375 H&H with a muzzle brake, bringing the barrel length close to 28". He claims that for him it points better than a short barreled rifle does and he further claims he has never experienced any disadvantage with it in heavy cover, which I often bring up as an advantage of my short rifles. I had occasion one to grab that rifle and subsequently fired it without giving the brake it's due consideration. Now I like rifles with short barrels and I like rifles with long barrels, but I hate breaks. With respect to the blast associated with short barrels, short being 20" or so, I find the wind is a big part of the discomfort one might experience. Shooting with the wind at your back is fine, but shooting into the wind can hurt, but nothing like shooting a braked rifle without protection.
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IMO longer barrels without brakes give one more shooting comfort and more pointability. Seems like putting a brake on a longer barrel kind of defeats the purpose. I'm cool living with the extra few inches but would never brake a gun. If traveling and space is tight I might go shorter.
 
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