Closest a bear can get...

Right on GH, the scope should always be in the "up" position. I mount my rifle scabbard on the opposing side to that which I mount. The saddle has a natural tendency to slide on the mounting side. The extra weight of the rifle and scabbard leans it opposing. So when I mount up, it tends to straighten things up. I also place mine, butt back. Reason being the branches and crap can catch the buttstock while bushwacking. Good to see you on horses though. :D Alot of people may think about "quick dismount" and access to rifle. That's only when indians com' a shootin'. Hunting!...you find a place to tie up and hoof it on foot, so it's not an issue. :)

Sorry for the highjack, we can move on somepalce else need be.
 
Having been up close to a number of grizz, I concur that it is humbling, and the best way to not get a negative encounter is to retreat from one, but sometiems you gotta stand your ground...
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I have had close ups with black bears and grizzlies while working in the bush. Unarmed you're just trying to keep you and your partner calm and resisting the urge to cut and run. I have also encountered them while armed with a handgun and believe me, even with the sights on and the hammer back in single action, it's still pretty humbling.
 
Sorry, Mabee I have read too many bear books and heard how much lead it can actually take to stop a charging grizz,,
When it is apparent that the bear is actually charging me or my partner,I am stating to shoot ,I wont be worrying about a magic line it has to cross first.
 
Right on GH, the scope should always be in the "up" position.
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I've had this discussion many times, mostly wiht guys that ride far more often than me, and some of them are adamant that the scope down causes no harm. Like I said, I had trouble once on a horse trip 10 years ago, and ever since have wore the scope up. Fits better in my scabbard that way anyway.


I mount my rifle scabbard on the opposing side to that which I mount. The saddle has a natural tendency to slide on the mounting side. The extra weight of the rifle and scabbard leans it opposing. So when I mount up, it tends to straighten things up.
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That is what I always understood to do as well, for the same reason. Although I generally mount any side I can get on because the damn horses i ride are invariably tall bastards.;)

I also place mine, butt back. Reason being the branches and crap can catch the buttstock while bushwacking.
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My scabbard has a butt cover on it (as you can see in the pic- although there is no rifle in it in the picture) So I put it butt forward, but if it was open, I'd go butt back. In the pic, the end cap is kinda floppy, as it's just stuck on, but when a rifle is in it, it's quite snug, and all it takes is to pop a clip and you have acess.:dancingbanana:

Good to see you on horses though. :D.
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I'v always liked riding, and many of my neighbors have horses, so I try to get out a bit. I absolutely LOVE hunitng trips with horses, it's suh a fantastic way to get around...although I have wanted to shoot a horse more than once!:D

That pic is near the Prophet River, in northern BC, a good 3 days ride form anything that could be considered civilization. Great country.

Alot of people may think about "quick dismount" and access to rifle. That's only when indians com' a shootin'. Hunting!...you find a place to tie up and hoof it on foot, so it's not an issue
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Only time I wanted quick acess was wiht that bear!:p

Sorry for the highjack, we can move on somepalce else need be.
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It's a bear thread...Soon it will degrade into buckshot and spears, so we may as well talk scabbards and saddles.:p
 
That is what I always understood to do as well, for the same reason. Although I generally mount any side I can get on because the damn horses i ride are invariably tall bastards.
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In my case, none of the horses are tall bastards, I'm just a short bastard. :D
 
gitrdun said:
In my case, none of the horses are tall bastards, I'm just a short bastard. :D
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Yah might want to try one of them Mongolian war horses. :D

MongolianHorse.jpg
 
damn these charging bear stories are freaky

I've got a vz58L in 7.62x39mm that I'll be carrying on a sling through the bush from now on... Maybe I should attach the bayo just in case

Here's a question: How effective do you guys think a 7.62x39 cartridge would be against a pissed off grizzly? Keep in mind my VZ is semi auto and I'd be able to squeeze off up to 5 rounds pretty quickly...
 
A few years ago there was a poster who adamantly forwarded the idea that an SKS was suitable for killing a charging bear, and things got a bit ugly before the thread ran it's course.

It is my opinion that a 125 gr .30 caliber bullet at 2300 or even a 150 gr bullet at 2100 is below marginal for bear work. Having said that I recognize that any gun is better than no gun and that poachers in Africa kill elephants with multiple bursts of AK fire. That does not make the AK an elephant gun, nor does it make the 7.62X39 a bear cartridge regardless of how it is loaded.

When we attempt to say this load or that load is suitable for game of a certain weight we must consider the effectiveness of a single round. If we load the 7.62X39 with the best bullet available - a 150 gr TSX - the calculations show that 200 pounds is the optimal size of game the cartridge will kill. If we, for comparison purposes, consider the 200 gr TSX .308 bullet loaded to 2500 fps in a .30-06, we have a cartridge suitable for a 1000 pound game animal. Consider now that many individuals with a great deal of bear experience, don't think any .30 caliber rifle is suitable for the job, preferring a .338 or larger.

To muddy the waters a bit more is the fact that in a hunting scenario, a cartridge might perform admirably on an unsuspecting game animal. In a dangerous bear encounter however, the bear has committed himself to an attack. This means that his adrenalin level is elevated, he is focused on what he is going to do, and in such a state the bear is much more difficult to stop - and the key is to stop him. If the bear is able to kill you, despite the fact that your bullet(s) delivered a lethal wound doesn't do you much good. Sometimes bullet wound effects are not immediately apparent.

African professional hunters tend to have a great deal more dangerous game experience than their North American counterparts. Ideally they want the heaviest bullet for caliber that can be delivered at 2400 fps. The scale for them begins with a 220 gr bullet in the .30-06. I think that is a sensible starting point for us as well.
 
I like the 7.62x39 cartridge generally, and I plan on hunting with my pimped SKS, but I would not chose anything chambered for 7.62x39 for the purposes of bear defence. Like Boomer aptly alluded to, shooting an unsuspecting animal at 75 or 100 yards with a well placed shot when you are calm and in control of the situation is very definitely not the same as trying to stop a large, dedicated predator in it's tracks at close range while you are in dire fear for your life. If the only thing you have access to is a ZV-58L then definitely bring it along, but if you can borrow a 12 guage and a box of slugs from a friend, your life expectency in a bear emergency will go up considerably. And don't forget that your best defence against a bear is ALWAYS keeping your own mind clear and making smart decisions in the wild; many of us live and work in bear country, have contact with them regularly, and never have a problem. If you're only thinking about what weapon to carry when dealing with bears, you may have already missed the boat on bear safety.
 
The 7.62X39 is exactly the reason why I didn't choose the mini-30 in the end. I might have considered it in the .308 but that isn't the way it is. I bought an 88 Maverick practiced with the slugs for a while and have still had thoughts that I should maybe get a 45-70 instead.

Now this might be a good question maybe not though. Hornady has a copper jacketed sabot that looks like it would get very very nice penetration. Would any of you consider a sabot in a smooth bore for close up defensive purposes?
 
Oh I'm sure 5 rounds of 7.62x39 will kill any bear, but not for a long long time.
He might have time to get a snack in before he expires. :eek:
 
yeah I went and checked out a charging bear video on youtube and I figure 7.62x39 ain't gonna cut it unless I've got select fire and 30 round mags... So much for that idea.

Maybe if I'm calm enough I can manage to plug one of those 5 rounds right in the bear's brains? Would that even be of any use? I'm guessing their skull is thick enough to deflect a full metal jacket 7.62 round?

As far as shotguns go are slugs the only option against a bear or is there any type of shot that could get the job done as well?


Sorry for the noob questions. Not a hunter here, but I also don't feel like becoming bear food...
 
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