One of the services I contacted specifically mentioned that parts had to be ITAR compliant.
CNC Bottom Metal
- Thread starter anietfeld
- Start date
LOL! CNC is as good as the person that programs the actions of the machine tool.I love these threads. Guys seem to think a CNC is a magic machine, you just push a button and a part pops out.
Realistically CNC is only good if you are making many of something. CNC is the worst possible route if you only want a one-off part.
The online stuff is mostly in the USA and they won't touch anything that could come a cropper of ITAR. I asked.
No better.
No worse.
And, a programmer with a really good sense of what needs to happen, can make miracles pop like fireworks!
I'll add that the early gunsmithing books (NRA et al) have detailed instructions in how to make sporter rifle bottom metal for military 98's etc. Might want to look at that. - dan
Blastattack
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Winnipeg MB
They made them just fine, but the rifle would cost the average person 6-12 months wages.
And how much does a proper CNC mill cost? Not those crappy Chinese desktop models but a proper milling machine?
Blastattack
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Winnipeg MB
I have no idea what point you're trying to make. I'm not suggesting OP go out and buy a CNC machine to make one bottom metal. However, a capable introductory machine would cost roughly 6-12 months of wages, but you could fabricate a thousand bottom metals and pay it off quite readily.
... if you had a market for a thousand bottom metals. I doubt you would sell 1/10 that if your market was limited to Canada.
Well to be fair there are probably a lot of mausers out there that guys wouldn’t mind nicer bottom metal for. Hell, I’m one guy and one point in time and I’d like five. Also there no reason the market has to be limited to Canada only.
Might as well start making three position safeties as well!
Blastattack
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Winnipeg MB
No doubt. You also have the near infinite ability to create anything, so you’re only limited by the size and capabilities of the machine. Even those can be bypassed with some ingenuity.
Manual vs CNC is a moot point. I've made bottom metal both ways. Doing it manually eliminates programming time but adds to time on the machine, CNC is the inverse.
Cost of equipment isn't a direct factor as the customer is paying a shop rate/quoted price for the job. The manual shop might charge $100/hr but take 40hrs to do it, a CNC shop might charge 200/hr and do it in 20... These are generic numbers with better/faster shops charging exponentially more.
Either way, Sunny Hill or NECG charge fair prices in spite of the kick in the nuts that is the exchange rate.
As has been said, the only likely shot at a cost effective solution would be to find an employee with weekend privileges or a retiree with a hobby shop both willing to work for peanuts because its fun.
Cost of equipment isn't a direct factor as the customer is paying a shop rate/quoted price for the job. The manual shop might charge $100/hr but take 40hrs to do it, a CNC shop might charge 200/hr and do it in 20... These are generic numbers with better/faster shops charging exponentially more.
Either way, Sunny Hill or NECG charge fair prices in spite of the kick in the nuts that is the exchange rate.
As has been said, the only likely shot at a cost effective solution would be to find an employee with weekend privileges or a retiree with a hobby shop both willing to work for peanuts because its fun.
Swift Bullets sells Blackburn bottom metal now, the last time I inquired you could get them imported through Wolverine. Duane Wiebe made them too, but I can't recall the name of the person who took over after Wiebe's retirement.
uh, according to who? You? You must work for the government or something.
Blastattack
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Winnipeg MB
According to me, a machinist with 13 years of experience who does one-off stuff on the CNC mill just about every day. Do you have any qualifications?
according to me, a machinist with 9 years experience who does one-off stuff on the CNC mill
I spent the better part of my last 8 years in the Forces, programming and running mostly 'one-of' parts for F-18's and various weapons delivery hardware.
We had a computer with Gibbs-Cam on it, and I could start the job by laying out the first few processes, fire up the machine, and then sit back down and program a few more processes, load those, rinse repeat... The programming computer was only a few feet away from the mill, so it was a pretty time efficient way to make a part. I gotta admit, I was less than impressed with the CNC Mill (Milltronics Partner 4, with a Cent V control) at first, but soon learned to make it sing and dance.
One at a time parts on a CNC mill isn't that big of a deal, if you know what you want to accomplish, in what order. Make it a WHOLE lot easier to make odd arcs and curved surfaces, too.
There are a fair few older, but not completely obsolete smaller CNC Mills out there that can be got for well under $10K. They won't run at light speed, but they will still make as good parts as the programmer/Operator is able to.
Worth trolling through some of the For Sale posts over on the practicalmachinist and other sites to get a feel for what is moving around.
We had a computer with Gibbs-Cam on it, and I could start the job by laying out the first few processes, fire up the machine, and then sit back down and program a few more processes, load those, rinse repeat... The programming computer was only a few feet away from the mill, so it was a pretty time efficient way to make a part. I gotta admit, I was less than impressed with the CNC Mill (Milltronics Partner 4, with a Cent V control) at first, but soon learned to make it sing and dance.
One at a time parts on a CNC mill isn't that big of a deal, if you know what you want to accomplish, in what order. Make it a WHOLE lot easier to make odd arcs and curved surfaces, too.
There are a fair few older, but not completely obsolete smaller CNC Mills out there that can be got for well under $10K. They won't run at light speed, but they will still make as good parts as the programmer/Operator is able to.
Worth trolling through some of the For Sale posts over on the practicalmachinist and other sites to get a feel for what is moving around.
Jonnyofalltrades
Regular
- Location
- North-central Saskatchewan
Sorry, but as soon as someone on a forum begins using wording like this, they sound like a kid in a basement somewhere talking tough.
I have been around Mazatrol and IGF conversational programming for decades, as well as being comfortable with ISO code.
I can't imagine how your timeline could possibly work.
1.5 hours to fabricate fixtures?!
You totally lost me there.
See leelad's post. There's someone who's actually done what's being talked about.
One off parts in the cnc's is a pretty good waste. for small complex parts with multiple setups its wise to do 10-15 and save the worry of scrapping the single. Doesnt even take that much longer once you get it all running.
always good to minimize making fixtures whenever you can, usually its faster to cut it/tab it out of a solid block then trying to create fixtures for small runs.
Some people can setup machines very fast, but getting handed a print over having to reverse engineer a part is quite a hit to the speed.
always good to minimize making fixtures whenever you can, usually its faster to cut it/tab it out of a solid block then trying to create fixtures for small runs.
Some people can setup machines very fast, but getting handed a print over having to reverse engineer a part is quite a hit to the speed.
I’m not asking for a one off. I’d take five right now, hell even ten. Maybe 20 and try to recoup some costs
imagine being shocked at someone working full time!
It doesnt take 1.5hrs to setup and run a set of soft jaws on a mill.
I've been doing it with 3,4,5 (simultaneous aerospace), and 6 axis machines. Dual spindle mill turning on a CLX 450 TC. Mastercam, fusion360, HSMworks, Solidworks, GRBL, Haas VPS and Shopturn. Maybe if you spent less time relying on your seniority and realize that there are plenty of newer and faster ways to do things now!
You still roughing parts out there with the bottom .20 of the flutes and full stepover?
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