Cold bore first round going high...suggestions? SOLVED!!

BongoBob

BongoBob

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SEE POST #26 FOR SOLUTION.

Howdy CGNers,

I have a mid 90's push feed Winchester M70 XTR SPORTER in 7mm Rem Mag.

It's sitting in an un-bedded McMillan "hunter" stock and the barreled action has been cera-coated.

The barrel looks nice to the naked eye, but no idea how many rounds have been shot through it.

The scope and mounts are tight, the stock screws are properly torqued.

It doesn't matter if the barrel is clean or fouled, the first round keeps hitting 3-4" high...the next 3 always come in with a decent group right where I want them shooting my hand loads with 160 g bullets.

I could always just aim 3" low on the first shot, but I'm kinda fussy and prefer my hunting rifles to shoot tight groups.

Any suggestions? I am considering a re-barrel. Should I try bedding the stock/action first?

Cheers,
BongoBob
 
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If this is a hunting rifle, I'd say your zero is out. Probably 3-4" low.
Zero for cold bore.

You could bed it, but I doubt it's a bedding issue.
 
had the same questions although my first appears slightly lower than the rest of the group, its a ruger m77 hawkeye I sat in a ramline, though but same questions are asked.

im giving it another go today as is just to hopefully eliminate the possibility that I fly my 1st slightly, as its pretty possible at this early stage of development.

will keep an eye on the thread

WL
 
I would try bedding, but it could be the barrel. I wouldn't tolerate that shift on a hunting rifle, as there are times when a second shot is required.
 
I just finished final testing an it was me who was sending the flyer 1st shot. today 1st an 2nd both side by side. the 3rd not far away.... Happy days at my end.

Hope you overcome your rifles issues.

WL
 
It sounds as though the pressure point starts doing its job once the barrel begins to warm. Try placing shims in the barrel channel at the pressure point, it may take some experimenting to get it right, and see if that doesn't resolve your cold bore deviation. If that fails to make any difference, a bedding job is the next step, followed by a shiny new Ron Smith barrel. While I generally approve of zeroing to the cold bore shot, the deviation from the first to the second shot is more than I would care to live with.
 
My initial suggestion is "aim low". I know that this may seem simplistic but it will work so long as you operate with your brain switched on. It's a little close to hunting season for me to recommend bedding the rifle which could easily turn into a bunch of new load development. That's a job for March or April.

If you do get to a place where you would like to rebarrel then you need to do your research carefully, not only for the smith that will do the job but also the barrel manufacturer. For years I have been a fan of Ron Smith's barrels. Recently I learned that, while Ron is still a top-notch barrel maker, there are two other guys in his shop making barrels that have been of lower quality than Ron has historically turned out. If this is the case, and I have no reason to doubt my source, then I would be leery of using Ron's barrels (and this pains me to say). Hopefully this is just an example of the new guys not being as up to speed as necessary but when you're rolling the dice on a $1000 rebarrel/blueprint job you want to be sure that the final product will end up meeting expectations. I sincerely hope that Ron's quality stays where it has been for years. This is not a bash against Ron, but if the situation is that his barrels are not what they used to be then people need to know.

To that end I would recommend going with a Gaillard barrel. I bought one for my 25-06 build and it's excellent. I know others who have Gaillard barrels on silhouette rifles who are extremely happy with them. His reputation is stellar and his product is without reproach.
 
BigUglyMan said:
My initial suggestion is "aim low". I know that this may seem simplistic but it will work so long as you operate with your brain switched on. It's a little close to hunting season for me to recommend bedding the rifle which could easily turn into a bunch of new load development. That's a job for March or April.

If you do get to a place where you would like to rebarrel then you need to do your research carefully, not only for the smith that will do the job but also the barrel manufacturer. For years I have been a fan of Ron Smith's barrels. Recently I learned that, while Ron is still a top-notch barrel maker, there are two other guys in his shop making barrels that have been of lower quality than Ron has historically turned out. If this is the case, and I have no reason to doubt my source, then I would be leery of using Ron's barrels (and this pains me to say). Hopefully this is just an example of the new guys not being as up to speed as necessary but when you're rolling the dice on a $1000 rebarrel/blueprint job you want to be sure that the final product will end up meeting expectations. I sincerely hope that Ron's quality stays where it has been for years. This is not a bash against Ron, but if the situation is that his barrels are not what they used to be then people need to know.

To that end I would recommend going with a Gaillard barrel. I bought one for my 25-06 build and it's excellent. I know others who have Gaillard barrels on silhouette rifles who are extremely happy with them. His reputation is stellar and his product is without reproach.
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Seeing as how I have 3 Ron Smith barrels coming for my new switch barrel rifle, I'm hoping I got in ahead of the curve. The RS stainless fluted .375 barrel I had on my Brno 602 shot like a varmint rifle, and I personally think cut rifling produces a better barrel than button rifling, so I'm hoping this was a hiccup rather than a new reality. Time will tell I guess; every barrel maker has had a dud come out of his shop. The Gaillard barrel on my M-700 triple deuce, was a hummer though, and I'd have no qualms ordering another.
 
If the rifle shoots a decent group when warm then you don't likely need a new barrel just a good bedding job. 3-4" out with a cold barrel shot isn't accepable in my gun safe. I had a custom rifle that put the first shot 2" right, a little barrel channel sanding took care of that.
 
Boomer said:
Seeing as how I have 3 Ron Smith barrels coming for my new switch barrel rifle, I'm hoping I got in ahead of the curve. The RS stainless fluted .375 barrel I had on my Brno 602 shot like a varmint rifle, and I personally think cut rifling produces a better barrel than button rifling, so I'm hoping this was a hiccup rather than a new reality. Time will tell I guess; every barrel maker has had a dud come out of his shop. The Gaillard barrel on my M-700 triple deuce, was a hummer though, and I'd have no qualms ordering another.
Click to expand...

I hope you did too. I have one on my ATRS 300WM and it's a very good barrel, but the rifle was built back in 2008 when it was just Ron in the shop.
 
What is your cleaning regime before and after? Do not try to clean it too much as having copper fouling at a consistent level will help to keep your cold bore shots consistent. Do not use heavy solvents whem cleaning, clean patch after a range session is enough.
 
Thanks for all the ideas/opinions etc. For this season I could always just aim a bit low for the first shot...luckily, I have other rifles to hunt with that don't have this issue, they just have wood stocks, so not quite as inclined to beat the bush with them. I will most likely try bedding this rifle, we'll see if that changes things...I'll post the results.
 
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Blast 40 rounds through it quickly get it good and hot let it cool clean it and see what happens. Worst case nothing..
 
I don't post often, but sense at work we are having a test / discussion on the theory of cold bore vs cold shooter, every time we have put this theory to the test it seemed cold shooter wins. Could it be a different feeling in the stock, need to change your hold vs your other wood stock rifles like you mentioned, and just when you fire that first round you change to a different way of holding it. Length of pull, eye relief heck even cheek weld could be different, but you change after that first shot because your brain remembers unknowingly?
I know I've had this problem when going back and forth between multiple rifles with different stocks and optics. Takes a round or two to get back into each rifles feel and groove. But it seems I don't have that issue when I fire the same rifle for a long time, then it presents itself when I pick up another.

Just a thought, and alot cheaper then bedding or barrel change, but have a buddy watch you and see if after that first shot you change your position or hold.

On a side note though, I'd bed it eventually anyway whether it's the issue or not.

Good luck and happy hunting

Pro Patria
 
Is the barrel free floating all the way to the action? Is there any movement in the stock ? With the screws out?

If there is play in the stock with the screws out it needs to be bedded.
 
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