Hey all, I was chatting with a friend of mine lately about shooting in the cold weather, and he told me that some rifles don't handle it too well. Apparently some parts become brittle and break in the cold. I declined to participate in winter warfare so I have no experience shooting in very cold temperatures. I'm interested to know how some rifles with polymer parts behave, like the Keltec Sub 2000, or the Tavor. I think my JR Carbine and XCR should be fine since the important parts are metal. Anyways, let me know what you think. Thanks.
Cold weather and rifles?
- Thread starter Apollyon
- Start date
Ardent did a review of his Tavor, including leaving it in the snow for hours, hosing it with water so ice covered it, and other similar tests. Pretty cool to see all the ice jump off when he fires the first shot.
That said, I haven't heard of premium polymer components breaking on new production guns. Glock, SAN, SIG, S&W, HK, IWI, and all those others seem to have it figured out.
The only polymer guns I can recall breaking during regular use are Kel Tec ones.
The big problem with cold is lube freezing up, even oils turn into tar at a certain point, and the possibility of ice forming in the bore/chamber or other internals.
Even the best quality gun can fail if not adequately maintained, that maintainance might be drastically different from one environment to another. Think of all the conflicting information about maintaining an AR15. You get guys in Ohio or something saying it doesn't need any lube, you get guys in Vietnam saying it needs to be constantly submurged in oil, you get guys in Afghanistan saying it only needs a few drops in select locations, and you get guys in the Arctic saying it doesn't need any lube. Each of them has their own merits. Wet and salty environments call for a more intensive maintenance schedule than a dry and mild environment. In dusty environments the oils and grease turn into dust traps and the thing gunks up, and in the cold it all becomes viscous.
Or in some cases people have reported their ammunition primers having difficulties igniting the powder, which is why some people use magnum primers in cold weather loads.
That said, I haven't heard of premium polymer components breaking on new production guns. Glock, SAN, SIG, S&W, HK, IWI, and all those others seem to have it figured out.
The only polymer guns I can recall breaking during regular use are Kel Tec ones.
The big problem with cold is lube freezing up, even oils turn into tar at a certain point, and the possibility of ice forming in the bore/chamber or other internals.
Even the best quality gun can fail if not adequately maintained, that maintainance might be drastically different from one environment to another. Think of all the conflicting information about maintaining an AR15. You get guys in Ohio or something saying it doesn't need any lube, you get guys in Vietnam saying it needs to be constantly submurged in oil, you get guys in Afghanistan saying it only needs a few drops in select locations, and you get guys in the Arctic saying it doesn't need any lube. Each of them has their own merits. Wet and salty environments call for a more intensive maintenance schedule than a dry and mild environment. In dusty environments the oils and grease turn into dust traps and the thing gunks up, and in the cold it all becomes viscous.
Or in some cases people have reported their ammunition primers having difficulties igniting the powder, which is why some people use magnum primers in cold weather loads.
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Starting at -40 we have de-rating charts for steel structures and rigging, depending on what kind of steel and what kind of force applied to it.
That said, I've gone shooting in the -30s with various rifles and never had a problem. I start engines every morning and have never broken a valve spring or crankshaft, torn a timing chain, or even blown a plug.
One thing that will bug you is frost in your sights, though.
That said, I've gone shooting in the -30s with various rifles and never had a problem. I start engines every morning and have never broken a valve spring or crankshaft, torn a timing chain, or even blown a plug.
One thing that will bug you is frost in your sights, though.
I've done a fair bit of shooting this winter, in -30 to-35C temperatures, just playing around with various guns to see how they would handle the cold. As stated above, it's the lube rather than the guns themselves that sometimes fails. Plastic (oh, I'm sorry..."polymer"...) used in stocks, trigger guards, bolt shrouds etc. seems to withstand the low temps easily. Even a Rem Nylon 66 .22 rimfire semiauto, one of the original "plastic" guns, functions perfectly. A couple of fairly dirty guns have had the lube in their bolts thicken to the point where the firing pin failed to release, but any gun that was clean to start with seemed fine. I tried degreasing two of my bolt guns and lubing with the dry moly lube, and they were perfect, but so were a lot of guns with ordinary lube as well. Several muzzleloaders, both traditional percussion sidehammers as well as a modern inline, worked nicely.
One thing I always do when shooting in the cold is take a soft gun case out with me for each gun and let it sit in the cold while I shoot. When I'm done, the gun goes in the case, the case gets zipped shut, and the whole deal is brought into the house. I don't remove the gun until enough time has passed (at least several hours) for the gun and case to slowly warm up to room temperature. This prevents condensation from forming on the gun which otherwise happens when the freezing cold metal is suddenly brought indoors.
One thing I always do when shooting in the cold is take a soft gun case out with me for each gun and let it sit in the cold while I shoot. When I'm done, the gun goes in the case, the case gets zipped shut, and the whole deal is brought into the house. I don't remove the gun until enough time has passed (at least several hours) for the gun and case to slowly warm up to room temperature. This prevents condensation from forming on the gun which otherwise happens when the freezing cold metal is suddenly brought indoors.
If you bought a decent quality rifle the polymers should be fine. Most polymers start losing strength at some point, just be careful when it gets sub -20C. Unless you're dropping your rifle on rocks from 6 ft up, you should be OK.
Use winter-friendly lubricants, and don't bring a cold rifle into a warm room because water will condense on air-exposed surfaces. Leave the cold rifle in a closed case to warm up slowly and then take it out of the case a few hours after you bring it in and wipe it down. Fluid Film is your friend.
Use winter-friendly lubricants, and don't bring a cold rifle into a warm room because water will condense on air-exposed surfaces. Leave the cold rifle in a closed case to warm up slowly and then take it out of the case a few hours after you bring it in and wipe it down. Fluid Film is your friend.
My 1934 Mosin Nagant and my 1943 SVT-40 both love the cold.
Shooting at -30 C is NOT a problem !!
Then again, these guns are made with steel and wood, not that plastic stuff, and were developed for a country where cold temps are an annual certainty !!!
Shooting at -30 C is NOT a problem !!
Then again, these guns are made with steel and wood, not that plastic stuff, and were developed for a country where cold temps are an annual certainty !!!
thunderhand
Regular
- Location
- Mississauga
my 2 cents... my tokarevt-33 wont work at all in the cold.. if i put the mags in my pocket to warm up then it works sometimes, surplus ammo or newer. my mp 40 worked flawlessly in -15 temps shooting.... both frog lubbed.
I was out with my HK SL8-4 last week when it was -27C and it functioned perfectly.
Lube with light oil and not grease.
Firearms are not made with plastic , it is a kevlar or carbon reinforced polymer. Don't worry about it and get out there and shoot.
Lube with light oil and not grease.
Firearms are not made with plastic , it is a kevlar or carbon reinforced polymer. Don't worry about it and get out there and shoot.
In Afghanistan, I used CLP generously, to make sure all the metal parts has lubrication. Then took a cloth and wiped down all the metal parts so there was no obvious "wet" film on the rifle. As long as the pores in the metal has some lube applied from time to time, and there was no "wet" lube on the rifle to attract the fine dust that is Afghanistan, the rifle never failed me, and never attracted any unwelcome dirt or sand. Over there, you have to clean your rifle on a regular basis, or else it'll look more like a sand box toy.
In the Arctic, I used the same method with similar results. CLP is a fine synthetic lubricant. You just have to know how to use it in specific conditions. Transmission fluid has the similar properties, and can be used in the same way.
In the Arctic, I used the same method with similar results. CLP is a fine synthetic lubricant. You just have to know how to use it in specific conditions. Transmission fluid has the similar properties, and can be used in the same way.
TV-PressPass
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Mountains, Alberta
If you haven't seen the cold weather Tavor report yet: you should!
Well made guns should happily accommodate both hot and cold temperatures.
Well made guns should happily accommodate both hot and cold temperatures.
Op why did you decline to participate in winter warfare training? Lol why join the army then not do the fun stuff? Anyway, if your rifle is going to break in the cold, it's gonna break in the cold. Only one way to find out. However, I'm going to say its safe to assume you'll be just fine. I see lots of broken rifles on CGN but I dot recall any being due to cold alone.
I heard a story somewhere that the reason they made the stocks so uncomfortable and short on the Mosin is because they designed it with the idea in mind that the operator was going to be wearing a big thick heavy coat when he was using it.
- Location
- Aaaaaadmontin AB
In the summer time my range is unbearable - the hordes flock in, with their screaming kids and it is open warfare between them and the Fudds that want the range to be an old boy's club. In winter they all stay home which leaves the range wide open for me! The AR's, Tavor's and SL8's will all handle -20~30C with ease even on overnight winter camp trips. In that kind of weather I worry more about the truck starting in the morning and less about the guns.
As an aside I learned an old trick from a retired Canadian bush pilot - take your battery to bed with you and your starts the next morning will be a lot more successful!
As an aside I learned an old trick from a retired Canadian bush pilot - take your battery to bed with you and your starts the next morning will be a lot more successful!
- Location
- Aaaaaadmontin AB
That is a point to actually consider. Getting a cheek on my Tavor with a balaclava and a toque underneath that - it becomes a bit of a trick lining up the 3x9 scope I have on it...
