Colt Canada Modular Railed Rifle

[Epoxy7]

Do you have a <1 moa optic and are a 1 moa shooter off hand?

1.5 is the mil requirement for their dmrs and 2-4 is the usual requirement for patrol rifles.

The g36 issue is more political than technical. If you run it like a mg you will have poi shift. Thats why belt feds exist.

Off hand no. But news flash prone and supported are just as valuable a requirement for carbine accuracy.

You can get 1 moa even with a 2 moa red dot optic at 100 meters. That's 5 rounds with ammo the Carbine really liked. There are a few tricks to do this but yes it's very possible. Yes I have done it. Considering many base military optics are 4x this shouldn't be much of a debate. The real debate is speed vs accuracy. What is the acceptable compromise as you gain one you lose in the other.

By the way I have fired the C8IUR in full auto (legally). Frankly I prefere the carbines ability to deliver over lapping double taps. At least when it's equipped with the right trigger.

If you run a very accurate hunting rifle for more than 3 shots the groups open up. Thompson centre Icon for example shoots like a Remington 5R milspec for 3 rounds then opens up after that. This phenomena is well known to varminters, target shooters (f class, bench rest) and tactical precision shooters. You don't need to run it like a machine gun. It's just nice to know if you were to do more sustained fire that your barrel can take it and won't be toast. It's pretty much a huge selling feature for the heavier hammer forged barrels and FN 249 barrels found on all high end AR rifles from KAC, LMT, DD, Colt Canada etc.

I will end on the famous Townsend Whelen quote "only accurate rifles are interesting".

 

[fenceline]

These new MRR photos remind me of the photos showing a wall of IURs at last years SHOT Show... 5 or so different variations, barrel lengths, styles, etc. And.... we got 1 length and style. I feel this is simply another hype train, showing what they CAN do and then we will see what they WILL do which is make a ton to send to a contract, get the spares back and sell them to the commercial market a la IUR 2015.

Colt Canada has always said they build a lot of different types of guns for a lot of different contracts, and that civilian sales are secondary. Hell, civilian sales used to be "never' or "non-existant."

If you expect everything on that wall to come our way, you can stop holding your breath. It doesn't, and won't work like that currently with CC.

 

[tdod101]

What's an IUR?

 

[fenceline]

What's an IUR?

Integrated Upper Receiver. The front rail is part of the upper, all one piece.

 

[Bolivar]

Colt Canada has always said they build a lot of different types of guns for a lot of different contracts, and that civilian sales are secondary. Hell, civilian sales used to be "never' or "non-existant."

If you expect everything on that wall to come our way, you can stop holding your breath. It doesn't, and won't work like that currently with CC.

Given that Calibre is running an article about would have to guess that CC is currently gauging civilian interest. Perhaps they are in fact putting more emphasis on civi sales.

If so, here's some feed back - 20in IUR please.

 

[X-man]

I love my SA15.7, but seeing the MMR pics in the woods the first thought that crossed my mind was just how great of a predator rifle it would make. Sigh... .

 

[live4therut]

Colt Canada has always said they build a lot of different types of guns for a lot of different contracts, and that civilian sales are secondary. Hell, civilian sales used to be "never' or "non-existant."

If you expect everything on that wall to come our way, you can stop holding your breath. It doesn't, and won't work like that currently with CC.

Warren Downing quoted to the press "Colt Canada would consider producing a commercial/civilian version of the MRR if there is enough interest in the market."

I think we've proved that there is a lot of interest, although civi sales is very small number compared to the big mil contracts it's still sales at the end of the day. from what I've seen the SA limited edition line of rifles were a slow seller even the IUR's at full pop didn't fly off the shelf, but those returned contract uppers haven't been able to stay in stock anywhere. I'd love to see more returns available to our market.

 

[IMRJS]

Given that Calibre is running an article about would have to guess that CC is currently gauging civilian interest. Perhaps they are in fact putting more emphasis on civi sales.

If so, here's some feed back - 20in IUR please.

More news 20"

 

[r34skyline]

Why does somebody have to be capable of shooting 1MOA to want a 1 MOA rifle?

Wanting something and trying to validate the merits of something are not the same. This 1 moa magic patrol rifle is going to be no more effective in the hands of a 4 moa shot than a tavor.

Off hand no. But news flash prone and supported are just as valuable a requirement for carbine accuracy.

You can get 1 moa even with a 2 moa red dot optic at 100 meters. That's 5 rounds with ammo the Carbine really liked. There are a few tricks to do this but yes it's very possible. Yes I have done it. Considering many base military optics are 4x this shouldn't be much of a debate. The real debate is speed vs accuracy. What is the acceptable compromise as you gain one you lose in the other.

By the way I have fired the C8IUR in full auto (legally). Frankly I prefere the carbines ability to deliver over lapping double taps. At least when it's equipped with the right trigger.

If you run a very accurate hunting rifle for more than 3 shots the groups open up. Thompson centre Icon for example shoots like a Remington 5R milspec for 3 rounds then opens up after that. This phenomena is well known to varminters, target shooters (f class, bench rest) and tactical precision shooters. You don't need to run it like a machine gun. It's just nice to know if you were to do more sustained fire that your barrel can take it and won't be toast. It's pretty much a huge selling feature for the heavier hammer forged barrels and FN 249 barrels found on all high end AR rifles from KAC, LMT, DD, Colt Canada etc.

I will end on the famous Townsend Whelen quote "only accurate rifles are interesting".

A lot of the manufacturers you mentioned utilize cold hammer forged barrels but most of them do medium or government contoured barrel instead of the chunky soccom barrel specs.

While we are talking about what we have shot in full auto i have had a chance to play with an aug and a g36 in fa. Neither with a full fat barrel and neither game me wild poi shifts. They retain combat effective accuracy well into the "we are now just being stupid with the fun switch".

As for the fixed magnified optics accuracy i recently had the pleasure of playing with a friends 14.5 bcm non ff gov profile barrel. We did some fun shoots up close and i wanted to try the acog tree to see if i could hit the gong supported by the mag. Guess what the non heavy barreled non ff gun did just fine at making that steel sing.

And why dont you ask the swiss boys with their terrible light barrel guns how inaccurate those are?

I don't disagree on the cc being a fine dmr style gun. I love mine.

But that chunky bugger is unnecessarily heavy for a patrol rifle. This mmr is a welcome improvement.

 

[Epoxy7]

Wanting something and trying to validate the merits of something are not the same. This 1 moa magic patrol rifle is going to be no more effective in the hands of a 4 moa shot than a tavor.



A lot of the manufacturers you mentioned utilize cold hammer forged barrels but most of them do medium or government contoured barrel instead of the chunky soccom barrel specs.

While we are talking about what we have shot in full auto i have had a chance to play with an aug and a g36 in fa. Neither with a full fat barrel and neither game me wild poi shifts. They retain combat effective accuracy well into the "we are now just being stupid with the fun switch".

As for the fixed magnified optics accuracy i recently had the pleasure of playing with a friends 14.5 bcm non ff gov profile barrel. We did some fun shoots up close and i wanted to try the acog tree to see if i could hit the gong supported by the mag. Guess what the non heavy barreled non ff gun did just fine at making that steel sing.

And why dont you ask the swiss boys with their terrible light barrel guns how inaccurate those are?

I don't disagree on the cc being a fine dmr style gun. I love mine.

But that chunky bugger is unnecessarily heavy for a patrol rifle. This mmr is a welcome improvement.

The discussion did start with pencil barrels and you've now gone to M4 contours vs SOCCOM. Sort of like changing the goal posts mid game but whatever. As I mentioned before the Special forces seem to keep ordering up heavier profile barrels on their 16" carbines. Wonder why? It's not a matter of having to validate it. Usually it's a matter of requirement if the company wants to get the contract. As I mentioned before Colt Canada with the C8IUR seemed to be selling them to special forces, RCMP ect. The LMT mrp also just hit a big sale with the New Zealand military, replacing the much thinner barreled AUG as their main battle rifle. Wonder why?

Yup the slicker and less weight of the mmr would be nice. Same protection and advantages. The C8IUR is chunky but that being said in cases where they are signed out such as most patrol rifles, it's various users that get them. That's rough on firearms. Those chunky rails do tend to take a lot of chips etc. If the mmr is as tough then it's a very welcome addition. But I'll keep the heavier barrel. Plus for a patrol rifle, one minute it's needed for CQB, the next it's at 100 metres or more doing scene containment ie Designated marksman. It's a jack of all trades, expert at none. Which serves it's purpose perfectly. I should also add that 77 IVI grain SMK rounds are what is what they are generally fed. Not the cheep 55 grain 2.5 moa is fine crud.

I don't need to ask the Swiss boys. If you want to know the issues with POI changes using bipod, or where you rest the rifle along with how quickly that barrel warms up which does affect accuracy then have at it on a Swiss Arms thread. I'm well aware of the reality of the legendary Swiss Arms. If it wasn't non restricted I would stick with my AR rifles. Also I don't need to ask regarding what these Colt Canada barrels, FN 249 barrels or LMT barrels can do. But what do I know...

IF you're looking for a designated CQB only rifle or 3-gun gamer type rifle, plinker etc then yes the C8IUR isn't what you're looking for. There are better options out there. If you're looking for a precision rifle there are also better options out there. Most have gone 308 for precision AR these days. The C8IUR though is pretty good as a patrol carbine with it's jack of all trades, star of none versatility. It's an all purpose upper. I like them.

The new one looks cool. But will wait to see if mlok or keymod wins out before I'd buy one. With a monolithic upper you're pretty much stuck if you choose the one that disappears. There' s no changing that handguard.

This first one isn't mine. It's on long term loan. The rest I own. This is part of what I have based my comparisons on.

[/IMG]

 

[r_taylor]

Calgary Shooting Centre does it, 150$ a hour and about 3 hrs with adding taper pins to the new barrel. Which you'd have to supply or buy from them.

$125 Hr and about 1-1.5 hrs work. You can supply your own barrel or have them provide one (they use DD hammer forged barrels)

 

[Jacobean]

Colt Canada has always said they build a lot of different types of guns for a lot of different contracts, and that civilian sales are secondary. Hell, civilian sales used to be "never' or "non-existant."

If you expect everything on that wall to come our way, you can stop holding your breath. It doesn't, and won't work like that currently with CC.

Oh no, definitely not expecting it. I was talking along the same lines as you. These displays show us what they are capable of and what is essentially open to LEO and Military contracts but for us civs, who I continue to see saying they wish they'd release this or they want that version... It won't happen. We will be lucky to end up with the spares of whatever the biggest contract was.

 

[Panzerdagen]

More photos & info, sounds like a new trigger in the works too

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/natio...lightens-rifle-weight-for-soldiers-and-police

 

[xdmer]

I'm glad to see these options coming from CC, and really glad they went M-LOK over Keymod. Factory Cerakote is also a great touch!

 

[r34skyline]

The discussion did start with pencil barrels and you've now gone to M4 contours vs SOCCOM. Sort of like changing the goal posts mid game but whatever. As I mentioned before the Special forces seem to keep ordering up heavier profile barrels on their 16" carbines. Wonder why? It's not a matter of having to validate it. Usually it's a matter of requirement if the company wants to get the contract. As I mentioned before Colt Canada with the C8IUR seemed to be selling them to special forces, RCMP ect. The LMT mrp also just hit a big sale with the New Zealand military, replacing the much thinner barreled AUG as their main battle rifle. Wonder why?

Yup the slicker and less weight of the mmr would be nice. Same protection and advantages. The C8IUR is chunky but that being said in cases where they are signed out such as most patrol rifles, it's various users that get them. That's rough on firearms. Those chunky rails do tend to take a lot of chips etc. If the mmr is as tough then it's a very welcome addition. But I'll keep the heavier barrel. Plus for a patrol rifle, one minute it's needed for CQB, the next it's at 100 metres or more doing scene containment ie Designated marksman. It's a jack of all trades, expert at none. Which serves it's purpose perfectly. I should also add that 77 IVI grain SMK rounds are what is what they are generally fed. Not the cheep 55 grain 2.5 moa is fine crud.

I don't need to ask the Swiss boys. If you want to know the issues with POI changes using bipod, or where you rest the rifle along with how quickly that barrel warms up which does affect accuracy then have at it on a Swiss Arms thread. I'm well aware of the reality of the legendary Swiss Arms. If it wasn't non restricted I would stick with my AR rifles. Also I don't need to ask regarding what these Colt Canada barrels, FN 249 barrels or LMT barrels can do. But what do I know...

IF you're looking for a designated CQB only rifle or 3-gun gamer type rifle, plinker etc then yes the C8IUR isn't what you're looking for. There are better options out there. If you're looking for a precision rifle there are also better options out there. Most have gone 308 for precision AR these days. The C8IUR though is pretty good as a patrol carbine with it's jack of all trades, star of none versatility. It's an all purpose upper. I like them.

The new one looks cool. But will wait to see if mlok or keymod wins out before I'd buy one. With a monolithic upper you're pretty much stuck if you choose the one that disappears. There' s no changing that handguard.

This first one isn't mine. It's on long term loan. The rest I own. This is part of what I have based my comparisons on.

[/IMG]

I understood what you meant by the rails taking a beating. I dont see how a slick sided receiver/handguard will be any less durable. I do understand your reservations about the mlok/keymod battle. I suspect mlok is going to win simply because keymod seems to be dying down. But it is wise to wait and see how it pans out in the end.


I don't buy into the heavy barrel unless you are doing an obscene amount of full auto work. I would argue a government or medium contour will do fine for a patrol rifle.

As far as the rcmps decision they also took an inordinate amount of time deciding on pockets for pants. So i will ask you to excuse me if I don't take them seriously.


As for the nz aug replacement you seem to be a smart fellow so i will hazard a guess that you realize it was more than just the barrel thickness that was the deciding factor for the new procurement.

 

[Epoxy7]

I understood what you meant by the rails taking a beating. I dont see how a slick sided receiver/handguard will be any less durable. I do understand your reservations about the mlok/keymod battle. I suspect mlok is going to win simply because keymod seems to be dying down. But it is wise to wait and see how it pans out in the end.

just in terms of there being less material ie aluminum with the slick side it would likely make the handguard less strong structurally. I'm not convinced this is or will be an issue though. Just something to keep in mind. I've always been a less is more type of person with hanging stuff off the front of my firearms so I am all in favour of the slick sided handguards. Funny how this has come full circle. About 6 years ago on CGN I was very much in the minority for not liking the huge rails craze of the day. I think the way things are heading is great.

I also hear that mlok is starting to win. I kind of like the keymod system but from what I hear it costs more etc. So changes are VHS will win again!

I don't buy into the heavy barrel unless you are doing an obscene amount of full auto work. I would argue a government or medium contour will do fine for a patrol rifle.

As far as the rcmps decision they also took an inordinate amount of time deciding on pockets for pants. So i will ask you to excuse me if I don't take them seriously.

I like accuracy. I'm willing to trade off some weight for it. Not just after sustained fire including higher volumes of semi auto but also from cold barrels. I personally believe in first world countries we are heading towards accuracy as our militaries get smaller and are expected to do more. Optics which at one time you could find a debate between them and iron sights, have become the mainstay. 1-4, 1-6 2-10 etc are now much more common and will be far more commonplace. The previous lead hose view of black rifles is starting to go the way of the dinosaur. Now we have rifles capable of what used to be reserved for hunting rifles in the everyday rifleman/carbine users hands. I think this will continue. Which goes back to the jack of all trades aspect I previously mentioned with patrol carbines.

As for the RCMP decision making process. Agreed It takes forever. That being said check out the specs on the RCMP C8IUR rifles. They did a great job. The new carriers also look to be decent. I too was surprised. Worth basing a decision on the merits of each choice rather than as the organization making the choice.

As for the nz aug replacement you seem to be a smart fellow so i will hazard a guess that you realize it was more than just the barrel thickness that was the deciding factor for the new procurement.

Absolutely. That was as much a response to the guy posting that the LMT mrp was a flop as to your posts. That being said it's a new contract so they could specify whatever barrel profile they wish. Did they choose a pencil barrel? If yes then why, if no then why not? This goes to the heart of the discussion. The LMT was mentioned for it being a relatively new contract competition and what they choose along with why.

 

[r34skyline]

just in terms of there being less material ie aluminum with the slick side it would likely make the handguard less strong structurally. I'm not convinced this is or will be an issue though. Just something to keep in mind. I've always been a less is more type of person with hanging stuff off the front of my firearms so I am all in favour of the slick sided handguards. Funny how this has come full circle. About 6 years ago on CGN I was very much in the minority for not liking the huge rails craze of the day. I think the way things are heading is great.

I also hear that mlok is starting to win. I kind of like the keymod system but from what I hear it costs more etc. So changes are VHS will win again!



I like accuracy. I'm willing to trade off some weight for it. Not just after sustained fire including higher volumes of semi auto but also from cold barrels. I personally believe in first world countries we are heading towards accuracy as our militaries get smaller and are expected to do more. Optics which at one time you could find a debate between them and iron sights, have become the mainstay. 1-4, 1-6 2-10 etc are now much more common and will be far more commonplace. The previous lead hose view of black rifles is starting to go the way of the dinosaur. Now we have rifles capable of what used to be reserved for hunting rifles in the everyday rifleman/carbine users hands. I think this will continue. Which goes back to the jack of all trades aspect I previously mentioned with patrol carbines.

As for the RCMP decision making process. Agreed It takes forever. That being said check out the specs on the RCMP C8IUR rifles. They did a great job. The new carriers also look to be decent. I too was surprised. Worth basing a decision on the merits of each choice rather than as the organization making the choice.



Absolutely. That was as much a response to the guy posting that the LMT mrp was a flop as to your posts. That being said it's a new contract so they could specify whatever barrel profile they wish. Did they choose a pencil barrel? If yes then why, if no then why not? This goes to the heart of the discussion. The LMT was mentioned for it being a relatively new contract competition and what they choose along with why.

I understand the love for accuracy. I love accuracy myself. Especially the international kind

But if you saddle a quality 2-10 on something like adm mounts you now have a near 12lb rifle. My personal cc here weighs in i believe at 10.8lbs or something around there with no mags so thats just shy of a 12lbs rifle with a full 30 rounder in there(yes i know i cant have it but we are talking patrol rifles here). By comparison the bcm that i mentioned before is iirc somewhere around 8.5lbs unloaded as dressed. And i have had no issues making hits at 300 with it. And thats without a bipod on it as well.


As for the rcmp carbine. They made some smart picks and some absolutely baffling picks. The first and main thing i dont get is the full length side pic rails. What exactly are they planning on bolting on there? I don't understand the bottom pic piece either since rc will never be mounting a grenade launcher to their iur. The rest of it seems to be a solid choice. Personally i would go a gov contour or a pure medium contour instead of heavy because

1) the optic is meant for up close and personal work
2) they arent going to shoot it beyond 300 if farther than that.


As for the mrp i don't know what barrel profile nz ordered. I am hearing everything from gov profile to heavy. I know the commercial is heavy but i have not seen any concrete proof of what the nz army have specified so i can't really answer that.

 

[b_w.]

I look forward to the civi sales of this in the future!

 

[bongoz]

I look forward to the civi sales of this in the future!

I'm really excited for SHOT 2016. Mainly with the hopes of getting more information on this Rifle. And maybe some news on the possibility of Civi sales?

 

[TimberWolf_3063]

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/natio...lightens-rifle-weight-for-soldiers-and-police