Colt Canada SA20 Rollmark Thread posted on CC's forum April 16th late afternoon

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Infanteer90 said:
That article is about Colt Defense. My understanding is that Colt Canada is a separate entity. It is considered by Industry Canada to be a Canadian company. Apparently they earn between $25-50 million yearly. Regardless, my point is that they do not focus on selling to the general public.
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Colt Canada ≠ Colt Defense

CD has financial stakes in CC, but they are not the same company.
 
Jaws said:
Milking the tax payer and pretend g they are so Gucci cool. Had they been such an awesome company, why didn't they put together a rifle design, but have the government (us, tax payers), buy licence for colt's guns.
Honestly, I have more respect for keltec, than this government dependent parasites.
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So license building an improved version of something that works well is dumb? As a tax payer and someone who uses the C7 I am glad they went the route they did. We could have ended up with something like an FN2000.
 
Jaws said:
Nope. Colt is in t ruble because they are the most lazy big firearms company on the planet. They lived the last half century on government payroll, for firearms designed by other, more dynamic companies. Now they even lost the contract for the m4.
That was the only thing they still had to milk. Now FN makes the new m4s. It's funy, the lazy company, who didn't spend one cent on designing and developing new things, lost the contract for their own gun, to one of the most innovative and dynamic companies on the planet. They thought the government gravy train will go on for ever. They couldn't be bothered with civies.
Colt ready to go bancrupt during the biggest boom in firearms sales in history. That should tell you everything you need to know about Colt. They didn't design one new thing in over a century. Let them die already.

Colt Canada's mentality is exactly the same like Colt defense. Milking the tax payer and pretend g they are so Gucci cool. Had they been such an awesome company, why didn't they put together a rifle design, but have the government (us, tax payers), buy licence for colt's guns.
Honestly, I have more respect for keltec, than this government dependent parasites.
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The difference being here is that Canada WANTS to keep ALL of their production, or as much as possible, in Canada, through Colt. I would call Colts contract in Canada less of a contract and more of a partnership.
 
Colt Canada is a separate entity, with separate production and separate management. Colt Defense doesn't have anything to do with the operations within Colt Canada. They have a financial interest, much like a share holder. That is it.
 
It's not dumb charging three times what it's worth for a product and actually getting paid that price. It's dumb paying that price. It's dumb creting monopolies and eliminating a healthy competing business environment. Maybe if Colt Canada would have to worry about competition for the government gravy train, they may be a bit more innovative and their products would be more affordable. I'm talking here about the prices they charge the tax payers for this 30 years old design, not the civilian prices.
Do you realize the Americans get an almost identical product for less then a third of the price Colt Canada milks the Canadian tax payers for?
How is that good for anyone except Colt and maybe some politicians they bought.
 
DasJager said:
The difference being here is that Canada WANTS to keep ALL of their production, or as much as possible, in Canada, through Colt. I would call Colts contract in Canada less of a contract and more of a partnership.
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No actually they want all the small arms to be made by Colt Canada. They never let any other Canadian company compete for this contracts.
Remember the "Canadian Rangers rifle BS? It's all about Colt monopoly in small arms in Canada and the right people getting to milk all contracts. It's got nothing to do with them wanting a Canadian Company. Had that been the case, they would not have aproved the sale of Diemaco to the US based Colt.
Same bs that we get with the Beer Store, lcbo, imperial Tobacco and so on.
 
So you are saying we should buy guns from a Canadian company that does not know how to make guns?
Or are you saying we should invite another international company that does know how to make guns to set up shop in Canada?
 
Jaws said:
It's not dumb charging three times what it's worth for a product and actually getting paid that price. It's dumb paying that price. It's dumb creting monopolies and eliminating a healthy competing business environment. Maybe if Colt Canada would have to worry about competition for the government gravy train, they may be a bit more innovative and their products would be more affordable. I'm talking here about the prices they charge the tax payers for this 30 years old design, not the civilian prices.
Do you realize the Americans get an almost identical product for less then a third of the price Colt Canada milks the Canadian tax payers for?
How is that good for anyone except Colt and maybe some politicians they bought.
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Let me know where I can find a very high quality AR for 600 bucks. But Norcs are functional if that's what your getting at.
The U.S rifles are not built the same regardless.
If you don't want a CC rifle, don't buy it. There are plenty of us who do, and have no problem buying them.
 
ricohman said:
Let me know where I can find a very high quality AR for 600 bucks. But Norcs are functional if that's what your getting at.
The U.S rifles are not built the same regardless.
If you don't want a CC rifle, don't buy it. There are plenty of us who do, and have no problem buying them.
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I wasn't talking about civilian rifles. Was talking about the aberrant price we, as tax payers, have to pay for the mil and law enforcement rifles and carbines.
And yes, the Americans are paying 600+ for their new batch of m4s.
You know why? Because they didn't give monopoly to one company,so they get manufacturers compete for the contract.
 
Gunnerlove said:
So you are saying we should buy guns from a Canadian company that does not know how to make guns?
Or are you saying we should invite another international company that does know how to make guns to set up shop in Canada?
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I'd rather have more capable companies fight for our tax dollars, than have one make the prices however they want. Yes. I'D rather have to pay 1000 for an ar15 clone made to spec by a foreign company, in Canada, then be milked dry by this bs corrupt monopolies.
Don't ell me the Americans are getting shafted by FN making affordable m4s in USA.
The jobs stay in US Anyway. Don't tell me our system is better where a foreign own company has complete reign over all our small arms needs. Specially if it's a company who never designed a single successful firearm. We have to buy the licence from foreign companies for everything they make. Honestly, I'd rather have FN make their machine guns for our military here in Canada, than pay a lazy third party. Same with the rifles. There are a lot of companies that make quality ar15s. I'm sure we can find a bunch of them that could make the same product much cheaper.
 
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I'm pretty sure the Dutch, Danes and British got a better deal on their Colt Canada/Diemaco rifles than our military did. They had open competitions.
 
Jaws said:
It's not dumb charging three times what it's worth for a product and actually getting paid that price. It's dumb paying that price. It's dumb creting monopolies and eliminating a healthy competing business environment. Maybe if Colt Canada would have to worry about competition for the government gravy train, they may be a bit more innovative and their products would be more affordable. I'm talking here about the prices they charge the tax payers for this 30 years old design, not the civilian prices.
Do you realize the Americans get an almost identical product for less then a third of the price Colt Canada milks the Canadian tax payers for?
How is that good for anyone except Colt and maybe some politicians they bought.
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There are economies of scale at play here. Colt US has the capacity to produce 10x or greater the number of units than CC. I hardly think they are the same rifle/carbine. R&D costs money. That cost is pretty much the same if you produce 1000 or 100000 rifles. If you produce 1000, the per unit cost must be higher to recover that cost. Let's not forget, the C7/8 are built to a higher standard than the M4. That has been proven by many, the SAS being one of them. If an elite unit such as the SAS extensively tests and then selects a higher priced platform, it must be for a reason.
 
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Jaws said:
I'd rather have more capable companies fight for our tax dollars, than have one make the prices however they want. Yes. I'D rather have to pay 1000 for an ar15 clone made to spec by a foreign company, in Canada, then be milked dry by this bs corrupt monopolies.
Don't ell me the Americans are getting shafted by FN making affordable m4s in USA.
The jobs stay in US Anyway. Don't tell me our system is better where a foreign own company has complete reign over all our small arms needs. Specially if it's a company who never designed a single successful firearm. We have to buy the licence from foreign companies for everything they make. Honestly, I'd rather have FN make their machine guns for our military here in Canada, than pay a lazy third party. Same with the rifles. There are a lot of companies that make quality ar15s. I'm sure we can find a bunch of them that could make the same product much cheaper.
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You got a real hate on for Colt Canada. But as far a tax dollars go, the military procurement procedure in the last 3 decades is a real and genuine huge waste of tax dollars. And this isn't rifle money.
NEA builds rifles here in Canada. And they are cheaper. And they don't have any lucrative gov't contracts. This would fit all your purchasing requirements.
 
Jaws said:
It's not dumb charging three times what it's worth for a product and actually getting paid that price. It's dumb paying that price. It's dumb creting monopolies and eliminating a healthy competing business environment. Maybe if Colt Canada would have to worry about competition for the government gravy train, they may be a bit more innovative and their products would be more affordable. I'm talking here about the prices they charge the tax payers for this 30 years old design, not the civilian prices.
Do you realize the Americans get an almost identical product for less then a third of the price Colt Canada milks the Canadian tax payers for?
How is that good for anyone except Colt and maybe some politicians they bought.
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CC makes the rifles according to the military's specs. It's not like they decide what the rifles should look like. Also, one of the reasons why the Canadian made rifles cost more than the American rifles is the barrels. A CC barrel blank costs more than a completed US M4 barrel. And no, the Americans do not get an almost identical product. While they may appear the same there are over 150 technical differences between an American AR and a Canadian one. There are lots of opinions in these threads but it's clear that there is not a lot of understanding about why things are the way they are.
 
And in another news Colt is getting ready for the bancrupcy:
This is posted right on their website.
http://www.colt.com/ColtintheMedia/...e-LLC-Launches-Restructuring-Transaction.aspx

Maybe this may have something to do with the Colt Canada threads being nuked.

Look, I never said the rifles they make are bad. I may get one at some point, and didn't post this yesterday from the civilian sales point of view.
We got to this from talking about Colt defense, and the way our procurement works. Basically giving multi million dollar contracts without any kind of competition. Competition is what drives innovation, progress and drops prices.
I'm pretty sure if the government would make a competition for the future firearms contracts, we, as tax payers, could get this rifles for our military a lot cheaper.
Anyway, let's wait and see what direction this bancrupcy goes and who will get Colt's shares in Colt Canada.
Hopefully some company more innovative and dynamic with more respect for civilians buys them and we all will be better off.
 
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