Colt Canada unveils at CANSEC 2024 new C8A4 to equip Canadian Army.

Boltgun said:
not much terminal performance is up for debate. Temporary cavitation beyond tissue stretch factor is the biggest value in bullets when they enter tissue beyond 2500 fps. Below 2500 fps then permanent cavity is primary wounding mechanism and fragmentation can lead to multiple permanent wound cavities. Fragmentation usually is above 2500fps in 5.56. That does NOT mean it is completely ineffective below 2500 fps. A 55-77gr projectile entering tissue at 1500 fps will still cause wound trauma incapacitation. same at 1000 fps. What it may require is multiple upper thoracic hits or one well placed CNS hit to cause IMMEDIATE or near immediate incapacitation.
Click to expand...
And not everybody is a sniper where 1 shot 1 kill. It's alot of spray and pray and snap shooting. Why they use FMJ not for the stopping power, but just to wound and take that person out of the fight and couple others.

So I don't see a 11.5" to be hindering.
 
OkayShooter said:
And not everybody is a sniper where 1 shot 1 kill. It's alot of spray and pray and snap shooting. Why they use FMJ not for the stopping power, but just to wound and take that person out of the fight and couple others.

So I don't see a 11.5" to be hindering.
Click to expand...
Oh God!! Not that same old tired urban myth again! They use FMJ because that what they're legally restricted to use by convention - no other reason.

The U.S. army had it figured out years ago that around 14.5 inches for a carbine bbl was the sweet spot compromise for portability (especially in urban conflicts) and still gave some terminal performance at a reasonably decent range. No need to reinvent the wheel again.

You just know if they waste tax dollars on this that in a few years down the road they'll be #####ing about lack of effectiveness at longer range and want to go back to longer barrels.
 
PSE said:
Oh God!! Not that same old tired urban myth again! They use FMJ because that what they're legally restricted to use by convention - no other reason.

The U.S. army had it figured out years ago that around 14.5 inches for a carbine bbl was the sweet spot compromise for portability (especially in urban conflicts) and still gave some terminal performance at a reasonably decent range. No need to reinvent the wheel again.

You just know if they waste tax dollars on this that in a few years down the road they'll be #####ing about lack of effectiveness at longer range and want to go back to longer barrels.
Click to expand...
Maybe that's the point. We are bound by laws and rules when it doesn't apply to them. Maybe they want us to hurt them less. Canada has a track record for buying sub par equipment.
 
greentips said:
the gun itself has no more to go, a gun is a gun there is only so much wheel that can be reinvented until they shoot case less mini HE rounds.

By 2027 we should be having things that is not the 2015 style LPVO and lighter/smaller suppressor. The thing put on top of this ting is still 2010 to 2015 thinking. The thing of the future is not the gun itself, but digital NV/Thermal/Passive targeting module integrated to network of drones and other stuff. Dudes should see an arrow through his lense and point the thing to the direction until it beeps. Like a highly integrated and lighter version of what CC demonstrated some years ago.
Click to expand...
I agree they should be thinking forward, same goes for the govt and society at large.... it's not hard to imagine that soldiers will be replaced by thinking machines along with lawyers, accountants, physiologists,bureaucrats and other middle management paper pushers and a long list of other occupations! The future arrived a few years back, but they never really bothered to tell us....

Hopefully at some point rather then using flesh and blood to see who's #### is bigger Countries will be willing to run simulations and agree to negotiate for peace based on a simulated war.... save Trillions of dollars and hundreds of thousands of lives.

It would be nice if one day Canada had a military that was capable, well equipped and self sufficient for resupply.... but were a long way from that when our govt is thinking of buying hotels to house economic refugees.

Our Govt has been renovating Parliment for 10 years becuase they think they need to make more space for bums to sit in due to their half-million plus immigration rates.... they have a department of technology but I guess they don't think that the dummies in Ottawa can be, will be or should be replaced with thinking machines.
 
OkayShooter said:
Maybe that's the point. We are bound by laws and rules when it doesn't apply to them. Maybe they want us to hurt them less. Canada has a track record for buying sub par equipment.
Click to expand...
Exactly - So maybe it's time we optimized our equipment procurement based on the restrictions we have no choice but to contend with (in this case ammo projectile limitations) and not seek to cripple our effectiveness even further.

Until we have a different ammo platform available, it is a delicate balancing act but the bright spot is that there is a lot of qualified and quantified test data out there from credible sources to make an informed decision.
 
I've always regarded Diemaco, presently Colt Canada, as a bright spot in the CAF supply chain. Their version of the Armalite Rifle has been chosen by elite forces across the globe, including the rather knowledgeable group of pro users known as the SAS.
 
C77 will be replaced with a green version if the propaganda is true .

The green stuff is generally more lethal like m855a1 and the green dual core made by imi bac GD

Lethality can be easily sorted out by bullet design and it is a known objective and the solution is available .
 
DVX said:
Odd they would go with M-LOK instead of rails, considering it takes more tools and time to install things than slapping something on a rail when time is tight.
Click to expand...
Because, as you can see in the photo, you can slot pic rail sections into relevant parts of the handguard without having the weight of a full 1913 handguard. MLOK is light, has durable slots, it's easy and inexpensive to manufacture, etc. Full length 12 O'Clock rail with MLOK has become the standard for good reasons.
 
Last edited:
greentips said:
I just heard that not yet verified 3rd hand the first delivery is happening this year to the reg force
Click to expand...
The C8A4 or the ammo?

I won’t hold my breath. I’ve seen photos floating around for well over a decade and a half of our “next service rifle”. Back then it was a 20” MRR with Picatinny rails.
 
the gun itself with suppressor and SAI scope, the full meal deal. Coming to your local friendly reg force infantry units.

It is 3rd hand, it is always subjected to mis-communication, mis-read, mis-understanding or just plain not hearing the right thing.
 
Neat, looks like Sig Bravo 5 5x prism optic, but since that is a discontinued model I'll guess that is user supplied. The crate looks to have Steiner T432s attached.
 
Those are the optic choices?

Burris rt-6 1-6.
They already have MOA garbage still to get rid of in the c79, they should not be buying MOA anything. And hard no to 2FP/SFP. There is zero reason to have a ballistic or reticle with sub tensions and have it be in the wrong focal plane.

Steiner T432
fixed 4 power might be an OK option. I wouldn't buy it without extreme testing followed by running over like 20 of them with a lav 6. First sign of failure, I'd dump it.

Sig bravo 5.
a discontinued product? that speaks volumes.
I'd look at the tango 6 FFP before touching this.

Sai 6
After looking at the specs, I like what I saw mostly, FFP (obvious must, 2fp is a deal breaker, if you dont know why then that on you to figure out), cute passive range finder in the reticle, BDC reticles are probably good enough as teaching new troops how to mil rad and apply elevation in mils will break St.Jean because it's full of learning disabled instructors and candidates. Bad are the lack of info on the the "wind hold -off" dots and you can't future proof 556 BDC reticles. This will be obsolescent on purchase (which isn't bad, you should replace stuff like this in 20 years anyway, but know the CAF this is a 50-100 year purchase).

Run it in 3gun or service rifle matches for a few seasons before purchase, then rubber stamp and buy mass.

Ideally ensure it's not made in places like china who are adversaries who would cut off the logistics of this in a conflict. Really needs to be made in Canada or US. It did take them like 3 years to de-bug the old nortel building during china's sabotage to canada's technology sector. Which I assume is still ongoing because, well, canada.

2 cents.
 
Not necessarily the actual model of optic itself but the general set up.

I hope they don't make decision based on some KD pwt shooting - they should be based on real field ex in different weather conditions.

They should just give people an aimpoint with magnifier or whatever magnified optic and an aimpoint. Aimpoint or whatever brand of battery powered reflex sight is a must have. That's the tool for sending the pluck into the net up close to the goalie, and the only thing use-able when everything is drowned in water and the front lense is covered in ice/mud.
 
11.5” for none combat arms and armoured crewmen 16” (or standard C8A3 length) for infantry units, both variants are fitted with suppressors, optics yet to be confirmed. Ether 1-6X LPVO or fixed 5X prism, trials underway.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom