Colt Canada's Next Generation Bullpup Prototype

Ok have a bee in my bonnet, followed a few links off that video. Why are we developing equipment in this day and age we should be testing existing proven equipment and adapting it to our needs.
That way we do not waste money on the development of this stuff.
Reinvest it into things like a dynamic night vision replacement program that keeps this type of equipment up to date.
Ok I am done with my tirade.....
 
At first I thought that this was an interesting project, then I saw that it has been in the R&D stage since 2009 - the whole of WWII lasted about 6 years, just to put things into perspective - and it is still not completed. The cherry on top was the added R&D post with videos showing the truly retarded "chin" guard and helmet. The crap these people do with tax dollars is border-line criminally insane.
 
Sasko31 said:
All I read about nows is cots commercial off the shelf purchasing. I remember the radio replacement program from years ago. We were carrying around 25 sets when at the same time we were training with the Rangers and each squad and team had bendix king or Motorola super Saber radios what the cf spent on research and development we could have purchased the same radio off the shelf for every combat arms soldier in the army at the time.
frequency hopping secure voice comms down to team level.
This goes beyond silly, what are they actually thinking that is not spending our defense budget very well.
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One day I will buy the surplus 521 radios and use them to build a brick and mortar out house. It will be the first time they will be good for anything.
 
Ok, so what have we learned...CF gear sucks because KevinB says so...It's all the fault of the Eggheads...don't worry about the future the industry will take care of it...

Kevin I'm not questioning your knowledge or credentials...but I know you can expand on it sucks and since you have been part of the process perhaps you could narrow down what part of the current way it's done holds it back in your opinon?
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There have been a few CF members who are gun/gear guys who tried to improve the system (like DLR), they quit and went to work for private industry.


Take the boots for example.

Every boot has been built on lasts made by DND. You take a company that makes great boots, give them the contract to make boots for the CF, but them tell them how to make the boots. Then you wind up with crap boots. It doesn't make sense.

Take the Tac Vest. Designed back in Bosnia and finally brought into existence way to late. Commercial load carriage development exceeded the speed of government (no surprise). Even in the last 5yrs gear has made massive leaps in material.

Private industry has always been and will always be ahead of the curve. They will also push it to market faster if there is money to be made.

Government doesn't make money off what it develops, it only spends money. Everything has to be thought of, developed, trialed, ok'd, budget approved, put out to tender blah blah blah. By that time it's usually obsolete, or a combination of so many products it doesn't do anything well (small pack/rucksack)

The best way to drive innovation is feed private industry. They will continue to stay ahead of their competition.
 
Danke!

I did some reading about the boots, amazing how something as straight forward as a boot can be screwed up by the bureaucracy.

I've sampled the Tac Vest, borrowed one at a clinic...used it for about 20 mins, back to belt and pouches.

The boots had me thinking that there are defiantly times when off the shelf stuff is going to be, if not superior, then more than adequate.
 
I'm down with just giving everyone C8's. That works pretty good, and updating that platform is financially ( as well as not needing to retrain anyone) more sound than getting a new rifle and trying to push it half-assed out to the major units.

As for all the 'splendiferous' kit the CF has to offer, I'll just go ahead and say there's a reason most dudes buy their own rigs/boots/gloves/day packs/etc nowadays, and why everyone is clamouring to get either an 82 or a jump ruck frame.
 
I'm not against research but you have to pay to play. The US has the money to fund things like DARPA and all sorts of projects. Some will say how we lose sovereignty by working closer with the Americans but we have already lost that by not paying the superpower entrance fee. Strategically I think we would do more good integrating more with US/ NATO. Especially if we cannot stand on our own.
 
Hey don't forget the Danes using Oculus Rift in trials to drive AFVs fully buttoned up. Great concept, would be able to see 360 degrees around the vehicle, up and under. Camera get shot out, go back to periscopes just like before. But wow powerful field of view. If you've ever driven a track buttoned up with those stupid periscopes and your head bouncing all a around you'd appreciate what they are trying to do (and driving over other soldiers kit left out in the training area.... ;-).

http://www.tu.no/tutv/forsvar/2014/05/05/norwegian-army-driving-armoured-vehicle-using-oculus-rift
 
Strategically I think we would do more good integrating more with US/ NATO. Especially if we cannot stand on our own.
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One of the issues I constantly see with that is a large number of CF members who are "anti-US". Not in a hate the US kinda way but brainwashed to think we are so much better and different that we require completely different gear and equipment than them.

Multicam - "That's US camo, I wouldn't be caught dead in that"

MOLLE - "That's that new fangled stuff the yanks are wearing, I like our tac vest better"

Boots - "Well we have different weather than those rednecks down in Texas do"


Most of these same guys try and get us to procure British/Aus. gear and equipment instead, at a great expense and lesser quality.


One thing some of the people in DLR/DRDC fail to realize is that if the US tried to develop something like the "Future Soldier" program and couldn't afford to do it, there is no way in hell we'll be able to afford it.
 
Thorvald said:
If you've ever driven a track buttoned up with those stupid periscopes and your head bouncing all a around you'd appreciate what they are trying to do.
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In full NBCW gear on at least one occasion.

I still think R&D spending is absolutely required. The benefit isn't a new object, but new technology, which has wider uses. The conversation here shouldn't be is Colt Canada and the Government wasting tax dollars. It should be is Colt getting enough resources/focus to produce any advances, and are the Engineers and Soldiers that would use it being left alone to get on with the job. Also why isn't a perfectly good off the shelf item (boots for ex.) being used instead of going through the hassle and expense of making something unique to our military.

Is DRDC being staffed by the brainiest soldiers, or is it where they send old Corporals and guys with a category that wouldn't let them go to the field. I would hope that the bulk of the troops giving feedback were some of the brightest, not the guys who tell a good joke sharing a beer with the Section Commander.

Those who think R&D should be left up to Corporations fail to understand they will only spend money on things that will generate money. An example is the current state of antibiotic research. The research has been pretty much left up to Big Pharma and it's pretty clear they aren't spending the money to keep up with the microbes. In this case we need to step up with some cash or suffer the consequences.

Is what's going on at DRDC some high ranking officer trying to create a legacy to carry them into the corporate world, or is it just an incompetent putz surrounding themselves with incompetent fools?

If your going to quote me please get out the thinking cap and lemons. If we're going to have an argument/conversation do me the courtesy of giving me something to work with. To that witty fellow who took the liberty who corrected one of my sentences. It should have read "If you served in the Canadian Forces in the last 20 years you'd have likely suffered explosive diarrhea without their gear".
 
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Farmboy said:
One of the issues I constantly see with that is a large number of CF members who are "anti-US". Not in a hate the US kinda way but brainwashed to think we are so much better and different that we require completely different gear and equipment than them.

One thing some of the people in DLR/DRDC fail to realize is that if the US tried to develop something like the "Future Soldier" program and couldn't afford to do it, there is no way in hell we'll be able to afford it.
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Pretty foolish to not consider US gear when you consider the cash they pump into research. I just hope some of the stuff that is considered too expensive today is revisited in a thoughtful way at a later date when it may be practical.
 
I still think R&D spending is absolutely required. The benefit isn't a new object, but new technology, which has wider uses.
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Private industry drives technology, not government. ie: Nasa vs Virgin, SpaceX, Redbull

For example the best material for load carriage right now was developed by Blue Force Gear, not government. At the time BFG was bringing Ultracomp to market, DND was just getting turned onto MOLLE as a viable option.


and are the Engineers and Soldiers that would use it being left alone to get on with the job.................Is DRDC being staffed by the brainiest soldiers,
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I had a talk with a DRDC officer at CANSEC one year, absolutely brilliant. The project that he was working on was an exoskeleton that produced it's own power when the soldier was walking. He was discussing building something out of the movies.

Here's some of the issues:

1) Money to fund a massive "mechwarrior" program that the US couldn't afford, again, we somehow think we can do it
2) Weight - The Griffens has a hard enough time lifting off in the sandbox without putting an exoskeleton on each man. The Griffens won't be replaced for quite awhile

What guys are screaming for is lighter weight kit, not stand alone mechwarriors with target tracking 40mm launchers. And while thinking of future kit is great, predicting to far ahead causes you to be off the curve when it does come.

Those who think R&D should be left up to Corporations fail to understand they will only spend money on things that will generate money. An example is the current state of antibiotic research.
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This industry doesn't work like big pharma. If it did you would have people who are ill, sick, disabled getting into the pharma. industry and driving product.

In the defense industry for the gear side, you have guys who got sick of using issued gear, got out, started their own companies/went to work for private industry and started driving new products that were better.

ie: Matbock, High Ground, Maddox Defense, BFG, Tyr, Mayflower, CTOMs etc. All of which who are leading innovation in the industry. Right now DND/DLR is looking to them for new products. The problem then happens when they try and change it for a "Canadian solution", which always happens.

Is what's going on at DRDC some high ranking officer trying to create a legacy to carry them into the corporate world, or is it just an incompetent putz surrounding themselves with incompetent fools?
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Legacy and civies holding onto jobs.

For example, do you know why guys are still issued canteens instead of Nalgene bottles? Because if Nalgene bottles are brought in the product manager for the canteens will loose his contract to another civy who would manage the Nalgene bottles.

If your going to quote me please get out the thinking cap and lemons. If we're going to have an argument/conversation do me the courtesy of giving me something to work with.
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Remember, guys like Kev. B, myself and others have been in the forces and work in industry. We have worked with DND/DLR, we have had contracts with DND/RCMP and other government agencies. We have spoken with them at length about product development.

It's what we do, day in and day out.
 
Farmboy said:
Remember, guys like Kev. B, myself and others have been in the forces and work in industry. We have worked with DND/DLR, we have had contracts with DND/RCMP and other government agencies. We have spoken with them at length about product development.

It's what we do, day in and day out.
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Thank you Farmboy for taking the time out of your Sunday to respond with a thoughtful reply. This is exactly what I'm asking for, your opinion as to what the problem is. I'm interested in why, not the obvious outcome of a broken system, "it's garbage/junk/crap" etc.

I don't agree that all innovation comes from private industry, I'd argue the new model is to pay private industry to do R&D that at one time was done at Universities. Especially with projects that won't equal big profits but require large amounts of resources to get started. I'm not sure if it's better or worse, time will tell, so far,so good.
 
I like my nalgene bottle.
There are still some major work projects defined by semi governmental agencies like NASA and DARPA. There is innovation that can still be achieved if the government projects are run well, look at the south koreans building their own F16, the KAI FA50 golden eagle at a cost of 30 million each (4x less than the f35), developped 70% by the south korean government, and putting their own satellites in space. Why cant we do that???
But yes right now it sure seems like civilian gear is far ahead of military gear.
Farmboy you sell some good shat! I wish I had more cash to buy your stuff, but I just bought a house and we just had a baby.
 
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This thread just reminded me of this neat article:

http://www.duffelblog.com/2012/09/army-spends-100m-on-piece-of-equipment-that-doesnt-do-anything/

I'd also like to remind everybody of all the switches we've made in rank flaps recently.

From green thread to "hi-viz" (white) thread. From CF officer ranks to British officer ranks and now since we have new uniforms we have to make brand new, velcro-backed ranks. Does anybody know how much money went into this? The 5e Bataillon des Services du Canada used to have "5 BN S du C" flashes under the ranks, they now changed it to "5 BON SVC". So some guys have literally changed rank flaps like four times in the last two years. And we apparently have no more money.
 
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