Colt LE6920
- Thread starter martiy
- Start date
Apparently the Norinco is really good value. The Chinese pulled out all the stops to make a really good carbine. I've shot it and it's nice. I know it's not like the big names, but it might be an alternative to look at, as the price of less than 800$ cannot be beat.
Oh yeah, and I think it's got a chrome-lined barrel, which is great feature, and tests say that the steel that Norinco uses is some of the best.
Oh yeah, and I think it's got a chrome-lined barrel, which is great feature, and tests say that the steel that Norinco uses is some of the best.
I'd say not really, at least not worth the price over LMT or Sabre. It is a matter of opinion and a lot of people will pay for the Colt logo.
If you want a quality shooter, but don't care about the pony, then it certainly isn't worth the extra bucks. Especially if you are afraid to use it because of its cost.
If you want a quality shooter, but don't care about the pony, then it certainly isn't worth the extra bucks. Especially if you are afraid to use it because of its cost.
My friend has the Colt - yes, it is a real nice rifle with excellent fit and finish but I prefer my LMT which performs identically, has even better F+F and cost quite a bit less. I have to say though, that in terms of Value For Money, my Norc M4gery is hands-down the winner and, with cheap 55gr pills, the more accurate.
Hokus Grey
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Somewhere between "WTF?" and "FTW!".
RRA and Stag both produce great AR's for the price.
But if you want the best, you have to pay for it.
But if you want the best, you have to pay for it.
gushulak
CGN frequent flyer
Don't think the Sabre Defence should even be mentioned alongside the other brands. IMO it is as good or better than a Colt. Prices are about the same for both too. Have a Colt 6290 and a SD M4, if I had too chose one over the other, it would be SD, much better finish, fit and barrel.
LMT is quality enough to win government contracts, and the fit and finish on all I've seen is impeccable, plus innovative options like MRP quick change barrels make it versatile. There is nothing this firearm can't do as well as the colt. I have less exp but have heard the same about Sabre Def.
Lee Enfield
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Republic of Alberta
Honestly, the Colt's are overpriced in Canada strictly based on supply, in the US they are @$100-200 more than an Armalite.
In the US they refer to "tiers", (tier 1,2,3) based on how close the manufacturers follow the US Gov't Technical Data Package.
(Search "the chart" or "tactical yellow visor" for more info)
Colt and the US Gov't jointly own the TDP.
A number of manufacturers have popped up who seek to replicate or exceed the TDP, they are usually quite expensive when imported to Canada.
Colt's
Knight's Armament (seeks to exceed ~does the things which Colt says they want to, but aren't allowed to by the Military)
BCM
Daniel Defence (except single heat shield handguards)
Adhering to the TDP costs money, so a (large) number of manufacturers take (varying levels of) short-cuts in their commercial sales:
Noveske (eg. only batch HPT the bolt & uses rifle extractor insert), Sabre, Stag/CMT, LMT, Armalite, Bushmaster, DPMS, RRA are examples commonly referred to as taking various short-cuts.
It's important to note that Stag & Sabre are spec'ed to be milspec by their Canadian importers, so they should be built better than the same guns commonly available to the US market.
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- Location
- Ottawa, Ontario
IMO Colt is vastly overpriced for what they are producing. I have assembled dozens of AR's using a mixture of parts from different manufacturers and have yet to see anything that makes the Colt parts worth the huge price increase. In some ways Colt parts are sloppy and not well finished. Some of the higher end small manufacturers are producing much nicer parts for less money.
This has to be the best thought out discussion regarding the level of Colt quality I have ever encountered.
This has to be the best thought out discussion regarding the level of Colt quality I have ever encountered.
- Location
- Ottawa, Ontario
IMO Colt is vastly overpriced for what they are producing. I have assembled dozens of AR's using a mixture of parts from different manufacturers and have yet to see anything that makes the Colt parts worth the huge price increase. In some ways Colt parts are sloppy and not well finished. Some of the higher end small manufacturers are producing much nicer parts for less money.
This has to be the best thought out discussion regarding the level of Colt quality I have ever encountered.
if you knew what the SOB paid you would understand
There is plenty of information on AR15.com and M4Carbine.net, where this comparison has been beaten to death. However, these comparisons are really about splitting hairs in many cases, (i.e. Parkerized under the FSP vs. or non-parkerized under the FSP) In my opinion, any of the readily available AR paltforms in Canada are just fine for a civilian shooter (i.e. Colt, LMT, Armalite, RRA, Sabre, Stag, Bushmaster). I hesitate on the Norc models, having only handled them and not fired them (Finish really sucks). I have had profesional experience with Colt Canada, Diemaco, and Armalite, and personal experience with LMT's, Noveske, and Armalite. In my opinion you can't go wrong with any of these mentioned AR's, as long as it was factory built, has a staked bolt key, quality bolt, quality barrel, and you use good mags. Keep in mind the DI, free floated AR's will tend to give you 0.5"-1.5" accuracy (Depending on the barrel and ammo), while the non-free float are mor like 1.5" to 3" depending on barrel length, type (SS vs. CL) and manufacture. The only problems I have had with any AR are from #1 poor mags, #2 cleaning issues, #3 Loose bolt key/broken extractor (Both Armalite bolts on my work rifle). I really like the LMT's for bang for the buck, especially the MRP system. Noveske barrels can't be beat. Any AR that fits together well, with a good BCG and good mags should give 99% of Canadian shooters, no problems.
This has to be the best thought out discussion regarding the level of Colt quality I have ever encountered.
Coming from you, that means alot.
The OP was asking if it becomes a safe queen after it was purchased. I answered. I am sorry if you feel that the statement was not "well thought out". IMO, there isn't much to be discussed. If you want to spend all that hard earned on a carbine and let it sit in your safe. That's your call.
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One needs to look a bit closer, than just reading off the famous rob_s chart.
Simply looking at HP and MPI testing is a very narrow basis to gauge the quality of a brand.
For example, Noveske (N4)and KAC employ CHF made by FN and Colt Canada. Is it Colt (USA) spec - NO. Also, the purity and the exact composition of the steel may not be MIL-B-11595E. What is the difference between a 6000 round M16 spec'ed barrel and a 30,000 round European spec'ed barrel for HK416/SG55X or a 10,000 round spec'ed LMG such as M249?
However, KAC does not even HP and MPI, or shot peening their bolts - well, you need to figure out what it bothers you more.
Will I give up a CHF barrel made of good steel for a blue extractor insert or HPed bolt? You need to pick your battle. I can always go buy another bolt if it bothers me.
Or does an extral aluminium liner matter more, for handguards that most toss away anyways?
How about heat treating and other QC that are not talked about?
The Rob_S chart is made up of superficial observations and check marks - the devil is in the details (and the track record, QC and QM of the manufacturer as well as the assembler). Some of the "mil-spec" featurs are useless, some are minimum and some shall be exceeded.
Simply looking at HP and MPI testing is a very narrow basis to gauge the quality of a brand.
For example, Noveske (N4)and KAC employ CHF made by FN and Colt Canada. Is it Colt (USA) spec - NO. Also, the purity and the exact composition of the steel may not be MIL-B-11595E. What is the difference between a 6000 round M16 spec'ed barrel and a 30,000 round European spec'ed barrel for HK416/SG55X or a 10,000 round spec'ed LMG such as M249?
However, KAC does not even HP and MPI, or shot peening their bolts - well, you need to figure out what it bothers you more.
Will I give up a CHF barrel made of good steel for a blue extractor insert or HPed bolt? You need to pick your battle. I can always go buy another bolt if it bothers me.
Or does an extral aluminium liner matter more, for handguards that most toss away anyways?
How about heat treating and other QC that are not talked about?
The Rob_S chart is made up of superficial observations and check marks - the devil is in the details (and the track record, QC and QM of the manufacturer as well as the assembler). Some of the "mil-spec" featurs are useless, some are minimum and some shall be exceeded.
Lee Enfield
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Republic of Alberta
Yes, I agree, eg) Armalite says that they don't need to MPI and HPT each of their bolts because "that's old technology". They only do "batch testing", but how do you prove that?
If KAC doesn't MP/HPT/Shot-peen their bolts, it's because they use different manufacturing processes and parts designs from the typical. Anyone familiar with work hardening and designing parts to resist stress cracking can look at an AR bolt and see points for improvement.
KAC has had the huge advantage (over Colt) of being able to design their parts from the ground up ~ ie) no one actually uses them (SR-15E3 ect), so they don't have to be backwards compatable to rifles manufactured in 1960.
In the AR market, pretty much everyone else has simply copied the Colt product ~ some of the "boutique" low production brands have made undoubted improvements, but they haven't been produced in the 100,000s.
Barrel life-spans as specified: The acceptable standard has to be standardized, ie) that 6,000 rd barrel may be better than the 30,000 rd barrel if the spec criterion were the same, (minimum acceptable accuracy ect).
The number of lands/grooves, barrel wall thickness, means of manufacture, barrel material, thickness of chrome lining each play a part.
To answer to OPs original question:
A "recreational shooter" is un-likely to notice a difference between a Colt and a Norinco. You are better off to purchase a mid-level AR varient and use the balance of money saved to purchase loaded ammo or componants.
After replacing a bolt due to breakage after the 5-8000 rounds of 5.56NATO level ammo fired, consider upgrading your rifle with a Colt, or upgrading it's componant parts yourself.
