Colt SAA First of Four Clicks.

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Interbak

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OK, for years we've been told that the old timers on the frontier carried the Colt SAA's with 5 of 6 chambers loaded and the hammer down on the empty chamber, as as safety measure. The theory being that it wasn't safe to have the firing pin resting on the primer of a live round if or when the gun was dropped it could discharge. Seems Colt addressed this issue, the first "click" when pulling back the hammer would appear to be a safety position that keeps the firing pin away from the primer. Is this incorrect? Was this first notch considered an unreliable safety measure, or was this first click for a different purpose? Every add on the EE for an original Colt states that all four clicks are present, that first one must have had a purpose.

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Given the safety notch on original Colt SAA can be defeated by a blow to the hammer, I'd load 5 in an original Colt SAA.

BTW I'd love to own an antique Colt SAA in .45 LC.
 
Probably back in the old days the safety notch was used and guns were carried with 6 rounds chambered, these days it is considered foolhardy and banned from competition (as far as I know). The older cap and ball Colts had pins between the chambers and a notch in the hammer so the hammer could be rested between the chambers and not directly above a cap so it would in theory be safe to carry fully loaded.
 
If I'm not mistaken, that second click (half cocked) position is to get the firing pin out of the way so that it does not hinder the cylinder from rotating and also to disengage the pawl so the cylinder can free spin and be loaded. As an added bonus, it acted as a safety. Half-#### notch was also a feature built in to avoid early firing and going off "half-cocked" BUT, I've been wrong before... :p
 
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How much of a blow to the hammer would it take to get this to fail? I'm not going to take a hammer to my Colt or a clone to test this, but it would have to be a fair bit, enough to make the trigger jump out of the notch, or actually round off the notch. Was it just a weak design?
I won't be out riding the range with my six shooter on my side, so it's only out of curiosity. Sometimes the prevailing wisdom is based on how it's always been done.

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The correct loading procedure is: . . Load one, leave one, load four more . . draw hammer all the way back and lower on empty chamber . .

Four clicks: C - - O - - L - - T
 
Yes Rod, I know that, however it doesn't answer the question. Colt did not produce a six shot revolver with the intention to only load 5, that would be ridiculous. The procedure for only loading 5 either came about because the safety didn't work, or people were too dumb to use it and a few folks shot their foot off.

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Rod said:
The correct loading procedure is: . . Load one, leave one, load four more . . draw hammer all the way back and lower on empty chamber . .

Four clicks: C - - O - - L - - T
Click to expand...
 
The old timers on the frontier carried being the difference. You won't be carrying it anywhere but on a range. Most 19th Century old timers couldn't afford a Colt anyway. However, half #### was and is the safety on any single action.
 
First click is safety on my uberti and I use it all the time. You can also push the pin in another notch and it is a safety feature also.( the pin that holds the cylinder in).
 
sunray said:
The old timers on the frontier carried being the difference. You won't be carrying it anywhere but on a range. Most 19th Century old timers couldn't afford a Colt anyway. However, half #### was and is the safety on any single action.
Click to expand...
first click is safety, second click ( half ####) is for loading.:)
 
I doubt it very much that anyone in the 19th century carried a revolver with one empty chamber. Worrying about the theoretical possibility of the notch rounding off from a severe blow to the hammer was a luxury that few frontier men could afford. The chances of one dying due to running out of ammo were probably higher than those of inadvertently shooting yourself due to notch failure.
 
Interbak said:
Yes Rod, I know that, however it doesn't answer the question. Colt did not produce a six shot revolver with the intention to only load 5, that would be ridiculous. The procedure for only loading 5 either came about because the safety didn't work, or people were too dumb to use it and a few folks shot their foot off.

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Yes, Colt did intend on only loading 5 in a 6 hole cylinder . . the correct procedure is exactly as I said. . rest the hammer on an empty chamber. . The first click is not considered the safety and neither is half ####. . At half #### the cylinder is free to spin around, that's no good. . Original 1st or 2nd gen Colt SA are not to be carried around with all 6 holes charged. . They were never designed to be and I don't doubt some folks did and some wore the scars as a result of.

Another thing with original SA Colts is when you finished loading, don't just allow the hammer to go back down, you must draw the hammer back, the remaining 2 clicks, to full #### and then ease the hammer back down,. . If you don't, you can damage the lock work and hand or sometimes the cylinder will jam on a 1st generation gun that's still tight. . Uberti and Pietta are more forgiving and you can get away with it on them because they pre-load the hand with a small coil spring where the grip frame meets the lower left recoil shield. . The cylinder is somewhat sloppy, on half #### compared to an early Colt, but it does allow forgiveness.

Dropping the gun, bumping it can touch off a round. . In the early years cowboys when they were cinching up their saddle, they'd hook the left stirrup over the horn of the saddle. . Occasionally the stirrup would slip off the horn and hit the hammer spur. . careless enough to have the hammer setting on a charged chamber is asking for trouble. .

If you're in need of charging all 6 holes, buy one of the reproduction copies that use a transfer bar. . Ruger uses quite a different system and Uberti and Pietta, on some models, also use a transfer bar or incorporate a two position cylinder base pin that when pushed all the way back prevents the hammer mounted firing pin from hitting the primer. . .

You asked and I answered but you do what you want.
 
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Rod, this isn't about me walking around with 6 loaded chambers, this was a question about the intended use, and the procedure of only loading 5. Do you have any actual documentation from the time period where Colt states this as fact, I'd like to see it. I would doubt very much that the government would accept the wonderful new SAA with a major safety flaw that didn't allow it to be fully loaded for battle, especially when Colts previous offerings allowed you to do just that. I like digging into the deep dark corners of history, and it never hurts to question the accept norms.

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As written in my manual , which came with my Uberti saa. Warning: Always keep an empty chamber below the hammer. It is only safe to load all six chambers if you are actively shooting the revolver in a controlled environment ( e.g, at a shooting range or in a competition ). Four hammer positions: 1 fully forward( at rest) 2 quarter #### (safe) 3 half #### ( loading) and 4 full #### (fire) . Safety features:1 cylinder base pin.image.jpgimage.jpgimage.jpg
 

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That's fine, Uberti in the lawyer ridden 2000's agrees with accepted convention, yet still refers to Quarter #### as safe position.
So, back to the original question, what was Colt's intention of having a quarter #### safe position if it wasn't actually useful as a safety position, and you still had to carry one less round???
 
Interbak said:
That's fine, Uberti in the lawyer ridden 2000's agrees with accepted convention, yet still refers to Quarter #### as safe position.
So, back to the original question, what was Colt's intention of having a quarter #### safe position if it wasn't actually useful as a safety position, and you still had to carry one less round???
Click to expand...
obviously it was a safety feature, maybe the 5 rnd theory is an old wives tale. I've read that there's a part that can wear out .and thereby making it possible for the trigger to engage from quarter ####.
 
Interbak said:
Rod, this isn't about me walking around with 6 loaded chambers, this was a question about the intended use, and the procedure of only loading 5. Do you have any actual documentation from the time period where Colt states this as fact, I'd like to see it. I would doubt very much that the government would accept the wonderful new SAA with a major safety flaw that didn't allow it to be fully loaded for battle, especially when Colts previous offerings allowed you to do just that. I like digging into the deep dark corners of history, and it never hurts to question the accept norms.

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Click to expand...

Read this . . http://gunsmagazine.com/colt-45-peacemaker/
 
Good read Rod, there you have it. It was designed as a safety notch and Colt did NOT intend the user to only load 5. Loading 5 is a the safe way around an inherent problem in the design. That is exactly what my original question was, guess it just took some time to get to it.

Thanks for the input guys,

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