the way I understand it is, wheelweights have a lot of antimony and this is what makes them hard. but they will still lead your barrel because they have little or no tin. you have to add tin so they will not lead the barrel. I always use Lyman#2 mix which is 9lbs of wheelweights and 1lb of 50/50 solder, or better yet, 9lbs of wheelweights, 8ozs of lead, and 8oz of lead free solder.(which is about 97% tin) this mixture works very well in rifle and revolvers.
Comercial Casters Need Advice.
- Thread starter msg.drew
- Start date
I have several magma products already.
I went to try to make some with out dropping them in water they are much better they are softer I am going to load them up and take another trip to the range.
I will take a picture of it shortly
I went to try to make some with out dropping them in water they are much better they are softer I am going to load them up and take another trip to the range.
I will take a picture of it shortly
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Trust me I don't have any problems here, I have been testing them just fine... yesterday I went to the range loaded up 5 - 8 shot mags went to town doing that over and over again till I had blasted through 150 rounds
I think I can rapid fire and minimize most of the barrel jump now, I can also feel the difference in bullet weight I am using 175 200 and 230 and I can feel the difference.
The idea is to get the magma casting machine for 12 Grand and start to sell these. I picked up there smaller unit to start.
Actually I am trying to figure out how to do all of this as much as possible automatically so I don't have to expose myself to the lead, basically set the thing up leave come back and volia bullets done.
I think I can rapid fire and minimize most of the barrel jump now, I can also feel the difference in bullet weight I am using 175 200 and 230 and I can feel the difference.
The idea is to get the magma casting machine for 12 Grand and start to sell these. I picked up there smaller unit to start.
Actually I am trying to figure out how to do all of this as much as possible automatically so I don't have to expose myself to the lead, basically set the thing up leave come back and volia bullets done.
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msg drew: It looks like a bevel base in the picture which is great for commercial casting, and easier to reload, not necessarily best to reduce leading. Also bearing surface is limited to some extent which may contribute to stripping and I would certainly try to get that lube groove filled with something more effective than Alox. You should be able to find a combination of hardness and lube that will make it work.
Yep is beveled... its the exact same spec bullet I have shot 40000 of DRG's I buy from a guy in ancaster. With lead prices going up through the roof and the fact that I have started a rifle bullet importing business I thought I might get into commercial casting for resale.
Not to mention my dad and brother both got into handgun shooting so we can go through alot of bullets on our own 20000+ a year for our personal use.
Not to mention my dad and brother both got into handgun shooting so we can go through alot of bullets on our own 20000+ a year for our personal use.
Stocker is right, the bevel base works good for machine casters as it falls out of the mold well, it also helps a bit with bullet seating, it is however prone to leading as the powder gases are directed up along side of the bullet. Combine that with a hard alloy that won't obturate and may also be undersized and you have a good chance of a leading problem.
I know some don't want to hear this, but.... Not long after I started shooting handgun, first with a .22 Ruger Std, then a 586, then about 25 more, I asked a fellow who poured his own bullets just what was involved. He made it sound pretty complicated and involving a lot of equipment. Well, I kind of gave up on the idea until I read Dean Grennell's article about "tumble lube" bullets. The rest is history. I have a nasty pile of Lee moulds, melting pots, sizing dies, and ... yes... a good supply of good old Lee stinky gooey Liquid Alox. Of all the .32, .38, .357, 9mm, 45 acp, and 44 Mag and rifle calibres I've fired over the years, the only leading problem I noticed was in an 8" 44 Mag barrel. I've tumble lubed, sized then tumbled lubed, poured rifle bullets and used Smith's blue stuff applied with my fingers, you name it. When a new fellow asks me what is involved in pouring bullets, I try to expalin both ends of the scale. In my Lee tumble lube molds, the second pour is often fit to use. As Grennell explained, it is not absolutely, completely, for double sure necessary to have NASA triple check every bullet for the precise, exact size for each and every gun. Some guns are fussy, some are forgiving. Obviously my 44 was fussy.
After the 4th range trip this week nothing has changed... the bullets tested today where significantly softer then the previous batch and lubed to the bejeebees with this alox stuff. 2 coats, I think the problem is they need to be wax lubed so I am going to order the machine.
This bullet design allows only the two little surfaces around the wax grove to touch the barrel lubing the base and tip of the bullet does nothing to prevent leading i think this is where the alox is flawed its not being applied to the parts that touch the barrel
This bullet design allows only the two little surfaces around the wax grove to touch the barrel lubing the base and tip of the bullet does nothing to prevent leading i think this is where the alox is flawed its not being applied to the parts that touch the barrel
hatman1793
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Not Alox please
Having been reloading ammo since the late 1970's, I can tell you the main and only reason to use only the crayon hard-type lube. Its reloading.
I'll break it down for you:
Hard type crayon lube mostly stays on the bullet and does not smear when you load and seat & crimp them in a case.
Bee''s wax, alox and all those soft-type lubes play hell with reloading. Using large quantities of bullets means buying in bulk like the DRG guy sells. Alox and the like transfer some of the lube to other bullets in the box and not just on the lube groove. After seating the so-treated bullet some of the lube gets squeezed out. So now you have lube around the bullet & case and must be wipped off, not to mention the lube left in the dye.
When crimping is done, same result. When the finished bullet gets dropped into the collection box some of that lube goes onto othe finished bullets there. Lube contamination all around.
To avoid this you gotta wipe. Wiping slows down loading. Trust me, hard crayon type lube is the best.
Where are you in Ontario? Hope your near me. The DRG guy needs some competition.
Having been reloading ammo since the late 1970's, I can tell you the main and only reason to use only the crayon hard-type lube. Its reloading.
I'll break it down for you:
Hard type crayon lube mostly stays on the bullet and does not smear when you load and seat & crimp them in a case.
Bee''s wax, alox and all those soft-type lubes play hell with reloading. Using large quantities of bullets means buying in bulk like the DRG guy sells. Alox and the like transfer some of the lube to other bullets in the box and not just on the lube groove. After seating the so-treated bullet some of the lube gets squeezed out. So now you have lube around the bullet & case and must be wipped off, not to mention the lube left in the dye.
When crimping is done, same result. When the finished bullet gets dropped into the collection box some of that lube goes onto othe finished bullets there. Lube contamination all around.
To avoid this you gotta wipe. Wiping slows down loading. Trust me, hard crayon type lube is the best.
Where are you in Ontario? Hope your near me. The DRG guy needs some competition.
Howdy; I shoot DRG in 45 colt revolver. (200 RNFP ) they are clean at 8oo fps . These bullets are virgin alloyed lead mixed at a foundry .
With wheel weight you can get them too hard and if not driven very fast will lead and foul like crazy.
For a cheap hardness tester get LEAD penicils of different grades (hardness ) line up the pencils soft to hard , scratch a bullet that you know with the pencil till you find one that digs in . Then compare your bullet . is it harder ? ( pencil skids off ) You build up a feel and comparsion for what you got .
If your bullet are harder than DRG ,than its too hard for less than 1000 fps handguns and will Lead the barrel no matter the lube . in my humble opinion.
Search the inter -net for bullet casting sights that explain that soft lead needs to go slow and hard lead must be driven fast in magunms to work clean.
With wheel weight you can get them too hard and if not driven very fast will lead and foul like crazy.
For a cheap hardness tester get LEAD penicils of different grades (hardness ) line up the pencils soft to hard , scratch a bullet that you know with the pencil till you find one that digs in . Then compare your bullet . is it harder ? ( pencil skids off ) You build up a feel and comparsion for what you got .
If your bullet are harder than DRG ,than its too hard for less than 1000 fps handguns and will Lead the barrel no matter the lube . in my humble opinion.
Search the inter -net for bullet casting sights that explain that soft lead needs to go slow and hard lead must be driven fast in magunms to work clean.
HI GUYS:
We used to cast and reload commercialy....
First question what is your alloy, hardness is not an indication of a trouble free (no leading) bullet.
The best alloy we arrived at over the years was 85% lead, 2%tin 13% antimony....
We used to reload about 3.5 to 4 million rds of .38spcl every year, plus a large number of bullets sold to reloaders.
As for the lubricant, this was given to me by the folks at Magna, 50/50 parifin and raw bees wax....
Melt your raw beeswax and filter through cheesecloth....
This is a very hard lube, your sizer needs to be heated....
Suggest the Magna lubricater/Sizer, fantastic production machine, with the feed bowl we could average well over 5,000 bullets per hour....
To avoid having your bullets stick together and aid in feeding through automatic machinery (Camdex etc) sprinkle a bit of talk on the bullets after they come out of the sizer, makes them slick and helps keep the leading to almost nothing....
We used the same process on all bullets we produced, .38s, .44s, .45s....
If I can offer any help drop me a note
john@marstar.ca
We used to cast and reload commercialy....
First question what is your alloy, hardness is not an indication of a trouble free (no leading) bullet.
The best alloy we arrived at over the years was 85% lead, 2%tin 13% antimony....
We used to reload about 3.5 to 4 million rds of .38spcl every year, plus a large number of bullets sold to reloaders.
As for the lubricant, this was given to me by the folks at Magna, 50/50 parifin and raw bees wax....
Melt your raw beeswax and filter through cheesecloth....
This is a very hard lube, your sizer needs to be heated....
Suggest the Magna lubricater/Sizer, fantastic production machine, with the feed bowl we could average well over 5,000 bullets per hour....
To avoid having your bullets stick together and aid in feeding through automatic machinery (Camdex etc) sprinkle a bit of talk on the bullets after they come out of the sizer, makes them slick and helps keep the leading to almost nothing....
We used the same process on all bullets we produced, .38s, .44s, .45s....
If I can offer any help drop me a note
john@marstar.ca
thanks john.. some good info there i already knew about the fact the wax had to be heated and if you can do 5000 rounds an hour this would be right up my alley... I been taking a break from messing around reloading... I have using gloves respirators and safety equipment but if any lead chemicals or partials are getting by my safety stuff I want to let my body take a rest from the exposure.
I got all my stuff finally, they screwed up my order and it had to be sent out again... I have used Lyman orange gold as the lube, I did 500 quick ones for testing tomorrow
One issue is I am getting wax around the beveled base and sometimes under the bullet is there a special die for bevel based bullets other wise seems to be working well.
One issue is I am getting wax around the beveled base and sometimes under the bullet is there a special die for bevel based bullets other wise seems to be working well.
