Competition O/U

Caboose

CGN frequent flyer
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I currently shoot a Beretta Silver Pigeon S - 20 gauge. It's a fantastic field gun. I use it occasionally for busting clays, but its to light for a full day of shooting.

Soooo, I'm in the market for a 12 gauge Sporting gun. I've narrowed it down to 3. The Caesar Guerini Maxus Impact, the Blaser F3 Vantage, and finally the Beretta DT11 Sporting. I've only been able to handle the DT11. Beautiful gun, very solidly built, but feels like shouldering a Whale compared to my little 20ga SP.

How do these guns perform? Which would you choose? I wish I could try a higher ribbed gun before buying. I shoot Trap and Sporting clays, never done Skeet but want to.
 
All are high quality guns that should be very reliable. I would not purchase a target shotgun without shouldering and swinging it first though, the various shotguns fit too differently, and the balance can vary considerably. My choice wouldn't help you, because I tend to shoot the Citori shotguns better than the Berettas.
 
You will have a better chance finding parts for the Beretta. The CG is beautiful, and has a decent dealer network, however most are not 'stocking' distributors and getting parts is even harder... Regarding the DT, I would have a hard time spending all that money and getting a plain gun. When in the 5 digit territory I want some engraving!

The reality is that a lot of people think they are going to shoot 'a lot', but then only end up shooting 125-150 rounds a week, which honestly is a lot for a non retired married guy. The DT and F3 are designed to handle flats and flats+ a week, the CG, not as much...There are still some Beretta 690s out there, at least they have an orange pinstripe, and are a fraction of the cost, and well built.

You seem to like the lower profile receivers, you would be doing yourself a favor also looking at a Browning 725 Sporting. IMO, I have not seen a Beretta finished to the quality of the new 725s. My sporting gun is a high grade (V) sporter and there is nothing on the rack that rivals it, IMO.

Finding a buyer for an used expensive sporting gun is difficult, maximize your chances (incase it doesn't work out..) by getting longer barrels, 30-32 inches. Before you buy a very expensive sporting gun (more then 5000$), make sure you understand how much the sport costs and how committed you are.

Good luck,
C
 
Any target gun is going to feel heavy compared to a 20 gauge o/u but the DT11 is definitely heavier than most. Heavy is good in a target gun because it keeps you smooth. I have a DT11 that I picked up last year and comparing it with other guns the extra weight is mostly between your hands in the receiver which gives it very stable swing.

I've been impressed with the gun. The barrel regulation is perfect and the gun patterns better than my Perazzi.

High rib sporting guns are becoming more common. My DT11 is an ACS which has a higher, adjustable rib and the more head up shooting position makes it a little lighter on recoil.

A close second would be the Blaser. I've always liked them and think they are comparable to the higher grade Berettas.
 
The weight helps with a few things, swinging past the target, recoil, and in my opinion keeps your lines straighter. If you can afford the DT11 no one will question the purchase, unless you have a wife then make sure she doesn't google it lol. Enjoy the hobby and make lots of room for the cases of target ammo that bad boy will burn through!!!
 
The weight helps with a few things, swinging past the target, recoil, and in my opinion keeps your lines straighter. If you can afford the DT11 no one will question the purchase, unless you have a wife then make sure she doesn't google it lol. Enjoy the hobby and make lots of room for the cases of target ammo that bad boy will burn through!!!
They aren't cheap but the price of a DT11 is less than a new snowmobile or a bass boat. After 5 years of steady use the DT11 will retain a far higher percentage of its value than just about anything with a motor. In that five year period someone who shoots 5,000 rounds in a year will have spent more on targets, club fees and shells than the gun.
 
They aren't cheap but the price of a DT11 is less than a new snowmobile or a bass boat. After 5 years of steady use the DT11 will retain a far higher percentage of its value than just about anything with a motor. In that five year period someone who shoots 5,000 rounds in a year will have spent more on targets, club fees and shells than the gun.

Excellent reasoning, but it is hard to get many over the "upfront cost" hurdle... definitely worth it in the long run.
 
They aren't cheap but the price of a DT11 is less than a new snowmobile or a bass boat. After 5 years of steady use the DT11 will retain a far higher percentage of its value than just about anything with a motor. In that five year period someone who shoots 5,000 rounds in a year will have spent more on targets, club fees and shells than the gun.

Everyone is different, but if I was (only) shooting 5000 rounds (I assume you mean 200 boxes or 20 flats) a year, I would have a hard time justifying a $11k +taxes shotgun. There are plenty of guns that are debatably prettier, and will have the same lifespan for way less money.

To each there own, that's for sure! In my mind a shotgun is a tool, and you get the tool that is appropriate for the job. But, even my wife says I am too practical (i.e. not fun enough). Of course I am just jealous, if I could afford a DT I would have one, and then get it sent out for custom engraving. :).

C
 
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Everyone is different, but if I was (only) shooting 5000 rounds (I assume you mean 200 boxes or 20 flats) a year, I would have a hard time justifying a $11k +taxes shotgun. There are plenty of guns that are debatably prettier, and will have the same lifespan for way less money.

To each there own, that's for sure! In my mind a shotgun is a tool, and you get the tool that is appropriate for the job. But, even my wife says I am too practical (i.e. not fun enough). Of course I am just jealous, if I could afford a DT I would have one, and then get it sent out for custom engraving. :)
True enough 5,000 rounds per year isn't very much for a competitive shooter but not unreasonable for a frequent shooter. I did the math and here's what I came up with. Prices vary at clubs so I've used mine.

100 sporting clays: $34.00
100 rounds @ $8.00 a box w/tax: $32.00

Total: $66.00 per outing x 50 per year x 5 years = $16,500.00

DT11 Sporting w/tax: $12,430.00

After 5 years the DT will be barely broken in after 25,000 rounds and probably retain 70-80 per cent of its value or more if kept in reasonable condition.
 
True enough 5,000 rounds per year isn't very much for a competitive shooter but not unreasonable for a frequent shooter. I did the math and here's what I came up with. Prices vary at clubs so I've used mine.

100 sporting clays: $34.00
100 rounds @ $8.00 a box w/tax: $32.00

Total: $66.00 per outing x 50 per year x 5 years = $16,500.00

DT11 Sporting w/tax: $12,430.00

After 5 years the DT will be barely broken in after 25,000 rounds and probably retain 70-80 per cent of its value or more if kept in reasonable condition.


$28,900 \ 5 \ 12 = 481 monthly total.... just saying guys judging people who can't afford that is not in the spirit of Gun nutz, hence the "if you can afford it comment" if you want to shoot and can afford ammo I will never laugh at a guy showing up with a $600-$1000 shotgun who just wants to participate and does what he can to do so.
 
I have a Beretta DT10 32" Sporter that I bought in 2000. I use it for Sporting, 5-Stand and Skeet ... more Skeet lately than anything else.
I'm guessing, but likely 75,000 rounds through it. Top lever still right of centre, and although it's not as "tight" now as when now, it is far from loose.
Absolutely zero mechanical issues.

It weighs 128.5 oz. , or 8.03 lbs. It is a very responsive gun, much more so than any similar Kreighoff I've tried, and somewhat more so than three DT-11's I've shot.
Early DT-11's were close to or just over 9 lbs. A few refinements along the line and they were down to 8-1/2 lbs. Newer ones I'm told have carbon fibre ribs and some kind of
synthetic trigger guard to save weight. I'm not a fan of adjustable combs and ribs, but the DT-11 ACS might be a good choice for a "do it all" target gun. My own choice for
a DT-11 would be the new "Black" version.

Two buddies tried the Blaser F3's ... both have switched after only a year or so ... one to a DT-11 and one to an MX-8 Perazzi. I'm not a fan (Blaser) ... they reminded me of a "high buck Ruger". Just don't see many Guerini's or Rizzini's at the various ranges, however there are a few. Lots of Browning 625's and 725's. Fine if you like them. Whichever you choose, it is hard to go wrong with the quality in a Browning, Beretta, Kreighoff, Kolar or Perazzi. More importantly, you will want a gun that truly "fits', balances between the hands and shoots to where you are looking ... or can be made to do so with a little gunsmithing. I had the cast-off increased, drop increased, length of pull decreased and pitch decreased on my DT-10 within a month of acquiring it. After a lot of patterning, it now shoots where I look. All will pattern well with factory original chokes and good loads.

If your heart is set on a new gun ... go for it. It should balance between the hands and despite it's weight, should feel like it swings smoothly ... neither hard to start or stop. It should in other words feel lively, and you should be looking straight and flat (or ever so slightly above) down the rib. It should feel good and comfortable. For that kind of dough,
i would want to shoot one or two of the model you have your sights set on. Most good shooters at a local club will, if you explain what you are considering, will offer to let you shoot a round or two with their guns to help you decide. If you are not opposed to a good used target gun, there are several out there for sale that have been well looked after and not abused. Most clubs have a bulletin board with target guns for sale ... or post a "want to buy" on the board. Check the EE on this site ... good target guns come up fairly frequently.

If the price tag on a new DT-11 is a little stiff for you, I would certainly consider the same gun in a 692 ... they too are a very robust model that will serve you well for years.

Good luck on your search ! :)
 
Early DT-11's were close to or just over 9 lbs. A few refinements along the line and they were down to 8-1/2 lbs. Newer ones I'm told have carbon fibre ribs and some kind of synthetic trigger guard to save weight. I'm not a fan of adjustable combs and ribs, but the DT-11 ACS might be a good choice for a "do it all" target gun.
My ACS is 8.5lbs. The rib is carbon fiber but the trigger guard is steel. The gun weighs about 3/4lbs. more than my P-gun but all the extra weight is in the receiver. It gives it a very different handling dynamic.
 
$28,900 \ 5 \ 12 = 481 monthly total.... just saying guys judging people who can't afford that is not in the spirit of Gun nutz, hence the "if you can afford it comment" if you want to shoot and can afford ammo I will never laugh at a guy showing up with a $600-$1000 shotgun who just wants to participate and does what he can to do so.

I don't think that's what CB was going for. He was just making a value justification for a quality firearm. And is 100% correct.

Of course the same argument could be made for a less expensive quality firearm that would still retain its value and be barely broken in, at 5000 rounds/year. Leaving lots of money for shooting and if they like the firearm, a tube set. I'm thinking 690/2 or Prevail/Perennia.

My argument is the OP said they have never shot trap or skeet. To me this indicates they are still working out what and how often they will be shooting.

People who need a wheelbarrow, seldom buy a dump truck. Further to that, they may find a dump truck to be a hindrance to their dirt moving activities. Even if it does have better resale.

C
 
$28,900 \ 5 \ 12 = 481 monthly total.... just saying guys judging people who can't afford that is not in the spirit of Gun nutz, hence the "if you can afford it comment" if you want to shoot and can afford ammo I will never laugh at a guy showing up with a $600-$1000 shotgun who just wants to participate and does what he can to do so.
I don't judge or laugh at them either. My least expensive shotgun has a replacement value of around $300.
 
I plan on shooting weekly, plus I have my own Trap here at the farm... Which ever I deside on, it'll be shot a bunch. I've always been a Beretta guy, just two presently in my stable. The 692 guns feel great, look great...and certainly more budget friendly. But what about the extractor / ejector selector problem? Has Beretta fixed the issue? Seems like a design flaw to me.
 
They aren't cheap but the price of a DT11 is less than a new snowmobile or a bass boat. After 5 years of steady use the DT11 will retain a far higher percentage of its value than just about anything with a motor. In that five year period someone who shoots 5,000 rounds in a year will have spent more on targets, club fees and shells than the gun.

I like the way you think!
 
I've tried on a couple Brownings...something just feels "off" about them. The 725 comes real close, wish I could fire one

I am using a 28 gauge 725 Sporting as my go to skeet gun, and a 20 gauge 725 Sporting for sporting clays. The 725 series has lighter barrels, and swings much quicker than the earlier series. The triggers are also lighter. The 20 gauge and 28 gauge actually fit differently, I added an adjustable comb to the 20 gauge,but the 28 gauge fits me perfectly as is. I did also have a 12 gauge 725 Sporting, but I rarely use 12 gauge guns anymore, so I sold it.
 
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