Compressing powder charge in BP cartridge

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Metman2

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What are other people using to compress their cartridge loads? According to experts like Paul Matthews, the long-distance precision BP cartridge should be loaded by first trickling the powder through a drop-tube (or vibrating the cartridges after dropping the powder in), then lightly compressing the powder. I his books, Matthews decribes a specially-machined plug for his die set.

I rigged up a simple powder-compressor-plug using a bolt and two nuts, filed the bolt head round and set the two lock-nuts. It fits into my .45-70 Lee expander die, with the expander plug removed. This then gives a consistent (~3/16") compression for my Pyrodex loads (yes, yes, it's not REAL BP, I know I am a heretic, etc. etc. :p but I have mostly plastic loading stuff and don't like the idea of a static discharge into BP interrupting my day).

TOTW sells an accessory for a few bucks, but the nuts-and-bolts rig was too easy and cheap to pass up. I found it has given more consistent ballistics than simple compression-by-feel. I also weigh each charge and use a drop-tube (straight 1/4" copper plumbing).

Now if I could only get somewhere within a reasonable distance where I can shoot beyond 200 yds....:(
 
sail32 said:
Tell us the area of Canada you live in for range information.
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My intention in starting this thread was to discuss black powder compression. However, just to put the aside to rest ....

I live near Montreal. I'm well aware of all the ranges within a couple of hours' drive. It would be great to be able to get out once every couple weeks, if not more frequently, but that's just not possible for me at this time.
Club de Tir Josee near St-Jean-sur-Richelieu has 200 yds, is affordable, very clean, but I manage to get out only a few times per year. It's only 70 km from my home, but a total of 3-4 hrs on the road (for any trip involving more than one highway interchange, and/or more than 30 km, Montreal traffic is pretty much guaranteed to be horribly congested), plus I have to take time off from work during the week to shoot, due to my other commitments. The Farnham/Mansonville ranges are/were greater than 200yd but involve even more travel time. I'm a few years from retirement, at which time I hope to be able to move to an area more conducive to the pursuit of my various hobbies. :)
 
I use a powder compression plug from Buffalo Arms in the states. Oh, and the issue with plastic and static being dangerous with black powder is a myth. You wouldn't be able to light it off if you tried. Some brands come in plastic bottles.
 
I just bought one from Track of the Wolf when I ordered the rest of the stuff I needed for 45-70 black powder reloading, it was $2.99. The German made black power I recently bought comes in a plastic container.
 
I use a 0.430" compression plug from Track for reloading .44-40 but I find with charges of 33 to 34 grains the bullet will compress the powder.

I also used a compression plug from Track when I was reloading .45-70.

I also use a Lee Factory crimp die for both cartridges.

You will find more information on Black Powder compression on such sites as:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/
http://www.bpcr.net/
http://www.shilohrifle.com/forums/ etc.
 
THanks for the replies. I guess I'll have to check out the other sites. I was more curious than clueless if that makes any sense.

I'm intrigued about the comments of negligible risk with loading BP using plastic implements. I realize the containers are plastic, but unless there's a way to ground the funnels and other implements that have powder moving over/through them, there will be a buildup of a certain level of static electricity. How much and whether it's dangerous is not something I claim to know, and perhaps it's similar to other things like using smokeless in BP guns: there's a risk but just because someone blew their gun up doesn't mean there's no safe way to do it. I check those other sites to see what people are saying there.
 
41 Colt said:
I always used the bullet and compressed when seating.
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To load 45-70 to the original Trapdoor Springfield specs you would deform the bullet as it is usually 20:1 lead to tin and the powder need to be compressed quite a bit. Hence the requirement for a compression die for some loads.
 
If you must get the maximum amount of black powder in a case, I have read of some reloaders adding powder and then compressing for a total of three (3) times per case.

After a point, the energy of the extra powder is mostly lost in heat and friction.
 
I prefer a compression die because its easier to adjust and maintain a more precise amount of compression so that all the loaded cartridges are the same...
 
I used the $3 Lee powder compression ram in my Lee die set for both 45-90 and 38-55. I agree with the comments that consistent compression after either vibrating or using the drop tube, is very important to good consistent accuracy/precision. Compressing powder by pressing on the bullet was counterproductive for me. I compressed by pressing on the over-powder card wad. I set the ram to compress the powder charge to the point where the bullet sits just about .010" short of touching the rifling. Now start loading with a minimal powder charge that just reaches the ram (almost no compression) and work up 3 or 5 shot groups by increasing the charge one grain at a time. You will see the group size shrink then begin to increase. The optimum degree of compression will be evident by the minimum group size. Then tweak the lube, wad, primer, etc. to max precision for that cartridge in your gun..
Ignition of BP by a static spark is an old wive's tale: the charcoal/carbon in the powder conducts electricity so the ignition temperature cannot be achieved because of the minimal electrical resistance and low amperage.
 
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