Comps on open guns?

TrevorF

TrevorF

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Hi Guys,

I just picked up a Caspian Arms .38 Super Single stack open gun yesterday and I have a lot of questions.

First off, where can I learn all there is to learn about comps and how they work, which one to chose, how to load for them etc? Can any one recommend a few good articles on line etc?

Thanks,
Trevor
 
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I'll try to post some more later but you'll find you'll get lots of theories and opinions. The principle behind how a comp works is simple, in practice it's a bit more complicated depending on how your gun is put together and what bullet weight, powder, barrel length, barrel weight, porpoise holes, comp material (steel, Ti, aluminum etc)
 
Actually it's pretty simple. More powder=more gas=less muzzle flip. A friend of mine has a comped 9x40 that flips down instead of up cuz there is so much gas pushing the muzzle down.
 
hal1955 said:
Actually it's pretty simple. More powder=more gas=less muzzle flip. A friend of mine has a comped 9x40 that flips down instead of up cuz there is so much gas pushing the muzzle down.
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And thats why its not so simple, a gun that tracks down or does anything other than track straight up and down will be slow. There's a reason the 9x25 and 9x40 fell out of favour by the top shooters. To get it to track right you end up loading what you would load in a super, then all you have is a super with less capacity.
If I was shooting in Canada only and not worried about capacity AND on a real tight budget AND had access to lots of free brass, I might be tempted to shoot 9x40 over a 9mm major as they seem to be more reliable (actually I am on a tight budget and I still wouldn't consider it).
I've gotten a couple of PM's on this and I hate to be blunt but there really is two choices of caliber if you are going to shoot Open. 9mm Major and .38 super/SuperComp. Anything else may be fun to try and interesting to shoot, but you won't be getting the most out of the gun to be competitive. 9mm is cheap but unreliable and .38 is reliable but not cheap. (Those are generalizations but pretty much hold true, yes there are some people that have got 9mm running reliably but usually they are not running cheap range brass and even then the brass doesn't last nearly as long as super will under the same conditions)
9x40 you lose capacity for no advantage gained
.40 you lose capacity and comp efficiency
.45 see above...but even worse.
and anything else is more aggrevation than its worth....up to and including a comped Desert Eagle...yes I've seen one, Austin Behlert had one on the table for display at the Canadian Nationals one year at Sharon...I think that was '88 or '89?
 
In my experience Trevor, (I've shot an open gun a couple of times) you can typically build a load around the gun and how it is set up- comp etc.... Short comps, with few chambers can get by with some slightly faster powders. Long multiple chamber comps can make use of lots of slower powder, which is what I prefer. Comps with barrel ports, well this thread can get long really fast, but realistically I would look up some tried and proven loads and experiment with what feels best. You might be able to put up with muzzle flip if the recoil is soft, or maybe you can tolerate hard recoil, if the gun stays flat. If I seen a pic of your gun and see the comp I may be able to recommend a few things to try. Big comps with lots of chambers have lots of baffle surface for the muzzle gasses to slam against pulling forward, and chambers allowing the gas to be redirected upwards to aid in keeping the muzzle down. Pats links are good ones, you will likely get lots of feedback, but if it was me that just bought a used gun ready to go, I would experiment with loads until I found one that felt good, was accurate and also with powder that I can get my hands on. Hope you find one that works for you! To get started, .38 Super with say 2-3 chambers, 124gr bullet, I would try IMR 7625. Large 3 chamber comp and larger, 4-5 chambers etc... with or without barrel ports in .38S I would consider IMR 4756. There are lots of powders and combinations out there, go on the enos forums, there is lots of data on there as well. I like the Hodgdon brand, and use HS6 and Longshot.
 
PH Racing said:
And thats why its not so simple, a gun that tracks down or does anything other than track straight up and down will be slow. There's a reason the 9x25 and 9x40 fell out of favour by the top shooters. To get it to track right you end up loading what you would load in a super, then all you have is a super with less capacity.
If I was shooting in Canada only and not worried about capacity AND on a real tight budget AND had access to lots of free brass, I might be tempted to shoot 9x40 over a 9mm major as they seem to be more reliable (actually I am on a tight budget and I still wouldn't consider it).
I've gotten a couple of PM's on this and I hate to be blunt but there really is two choices of caliber if you are going to shoot Open. 9mm Major and .38 super/SuperComp. Anything else may be fun to try and interesting to shoot, but you won't be getting the most out of the gun to be competitive. 9mm is cheap but unreliable and .38 is reliable but not cheap. (Those are generalizations but pretty much hold true, yes there are some people that have got 9mm running reliably but usually they are not running cheap range brass and even then the brass doesn't last nearly as long as super will under the same conditions)
9x40 you lose capacity for no advantage gained
.40 you lose capacity and comp efficiency
.45 see above...but even worse.
and anything else is more aggrevation than its worth....up to and including a comped Desert Eagle...yes I've seen one, Austin Behlert had one on the table for display at the Canadian Nationals one year at Sharon...I think that was '88 or '89?
Click to expand...
I used the 9x40 example to illustrate how effective a comp can be. You find a load that produces enough gas to work the comp until the gun tracks the way you want. More gas = flatter shooting gun.
 
as Pat noted above, picking the right comp is a bit of a black art. There are so many variables it would be impossible to predict precisely how any given comp will perform with a specific load. And that doesn't include the human variables which are brutally hard to nail down since everyone is different. You may think you've got the worst comp setup in the world whereas another person might love it. You never know how all those variables are going to combine until you try it. You also have to give yourself enough time to get used to it before you make a decision because your body will react differently to every new combination.

Best approach I can suggest is pick one of proven design and start using it. Do a little experimentation with loads and then pick one and stick with it. Some guys will spend endless amounts of time tweaking and trying different load combinations in the never ending quest for the perfect recipe. Note that each time you change your load you will have a new learning curve to endure and it can get very confusing very fast.
 
these guys are all very experienced on their respective replies. So many variables as they have mentioned. It is all for not if the firearm is not reliable.
 
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I just picked up a Caspian Arms .38 Super Single stack open gun yesterday and I have a lot of questions.

First off, where can I learn all there is to learn about comps and how they work, which one to chose, how to load for them etc? Can any one recommend a few good articles on line etc?
Click to expand...

Does it have a comp on it now?

If not and you want one then do you want to keep the slide full length? ( Easier to load for)

Ore maybe have it shortend a la SV IMM.

Are you going to compete in IPSC?

The simplest route is to use the stock barrel and a cone comp, probably 3 chamber.

If you are going to seriously compete then you need more than a comp, you need trigger and reliability tuning and a C-more sight for it.

At any rate have it fitted by a competent gunsmith/tuner.
 
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