Concealed carry~what should he pick?

1873shootist said:
I've used revolvers for over 40 years.
I've never experienced stoppages or cylinder dragging with quality ammunition.
And, you need quality ammunition for any handgun to be reliable, including Glocks.
A DA revolver is quick, easy, and simple to shoot, and reload, if not as fast to reload with a quick loader.
But then, you are carrying it for self-defense, not combat missions or firefights.
Shooting double action takes some practice at ranges more than 10 yards, but most civilian self-defense situations will occur at lesser distances.
And certainly, whatever weapon that you choose, you will practice with it.
As for the cleaning comment, nobody is going to carry a revolver for self-defense without regular cleaning and oiling, and it would take hundreds of fired rounds to affect the operation of any good DA revolver in any case.
And nobody is going to leave any self-defense handgun uncleaned for that long.
I wouldn't suggest that Glock is less reliable than a revolver. They have proven themselves.
But I think that revolvers have become the victim of revisionist history with regards to their suitability for civilian self-defense.
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My big issue with the Glock safe-trigger or any other pistol with the same ignition system design is that careless holstering technique could result in negligent discharge, with painful or even tragic consequences. DA revolvers with 12lb or more DA trigger pulls are less prone to this issue.

I'd say funcitonal reliability of a Glock vs a Smith or Ruger DA revolver would be dead even. Feed both with quality ammo is all. On the off chance of a semi auto malfunction, Tap rack bang to clear a semi auto in a diaper situation is a skill acquired by serious training plus constant practice. Casual CCW people will not have this skill availabe at all times.

Quality DA revolvers, by the very nature of their design, are not ever going to need any kind of FTE/FTF clearing skills to bring back into action. A dud just requires another pull of the trigger.

If a person cannot hit with a small frame revolver, he likely cannot hit anything with a Glock 19/26 as well. 10 ft accuracy is all one needs, longer range and it isn't defensive shooting. Yes, forensic scientists can determine the range. If you need to fend of armed assailants at longer ranges, then it is time to move to a safer to live.
 
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If I were to have only 'one' pistol, I would pick Glock 43 or another tiny singlestack 9 like Walther PPS. Very concealable.
Glock 26 is a good choice if you want more capacity...can use G19 or G17 magazines.

For midsized pistols there's a lot more choices. Glock 19 is the standard, I also found HK P2000 to be nice in that size as well. For Sigs I like P239 as it's thinner and more easily concealed than the P229.
The US also has quite a few super compact and light 1911 style guns for CCW too.

For me, I consider the Sig P226 to be too big for CCW. It's a full sized service pistol. I also find Walther P99 and PPQ to be too big...they are nicer than Glocks but Glock is more size efficient in that size range.
 
Wendell said:
In my experience - and I started with revolvers - revolvers are LESS reliable and MORE complicated than a quality safe-action/DAO semi-automatic pistol.
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A revolver has a trigger and a cylinder release. Once it's loaded, pull the trigger and it goes bang. There is no moving slide to get hung up in close quarters (contact) situations. There is no slide release, mag release, etc. I don't see how that revolvers are complicated and less reliable.
Wendell said:
Revolvers need to cleaned regularly, or they don't work.
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And autos don't??? EVERY gun needs to be maintained properly to function.
Wendell said:
Efficient manipulation of the revolver requires MORE practice, not less, than a quality safe-action/DAO semi-automatic pistol.
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In terms of squeezing off a good double action shot, yes. But if you're trusting your life with an auto, you better spend a lot of time practising dealing with malfunctions. In a gunfight situation, you might have someone grabbing at the gun, causing an auto to not cycle. You might be injured and trying to do this one-handed. The key is practice is needed regardless of the choice of firearm.
Wendell said:
Stoppages in a revolver often take MORE time, not less, than a quality safe-action/DAO semi-automatic pistol.
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I'll have to take your word on that. After 30 years of handgun shooting (revolvers and autos), I'm pretty good at clearing a stoppage in an auto, but I've NEVER dealt with a stoppage in a revolver.
Wendell said:
Accurate marksmanship with a small-frame revolver trigger requires MORE practice, not less, than a quality safe-action/DAO semi-automatic pistol.
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Yes.
Wendell said:
Anyone making the generalization that a revolver offers "simplicity and reliability" (over a Glock) doesn't know what he's talking about. The revolver does have a place; it is well-suited to a backup gun (BUG) role, as 'back-up' to a 'primary' quality safe-action/DAO semi-automatic pistol. Even professional users employ the revolver in the BUG role. The revolver in a primary role, however, is a losing proposition.
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I just don't agree. It's one thing for all of us on CGN to be talking about what we would carry if we were in a situation where we could. We're all comfortable with autos, we can all clear a malfunction quickly and instinctively - you get those skills when you've fired 1,000's and 1,000's of rounds. But the OP is looking for recommendations for a person who is not a gun enthusiast, who does not have all the experience that we all have. I stand with my recommendation for a revolver, regardless of how unpopular they are.
 
hawkmp9 said:
Lots of options that are all worthy. BUT the G19 takes the win on this when you consider all factors. IMO
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Agree 100% - if he's new to shooting, the G19 is the perfect combination of firepower and concealability.... next priority is getting the guy some training and a good holster.
 
tobin said:
Glock 43 for summer, Glock 19 or 26 for winter
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Height is the main factor in concealment, if you can hide a Glock 43 then you can hide a Glock 26. It's one of the reasons I ditched my shield in favor of the compact M&P. About the same size but it can accept full size magazines.
 
Calahan said:
A revolver has a trigger and a cylinder release. Once it's loaded, pull the trigger and it goes bang. There is no moving slide to get hung up in close quarters (contact) situations. There is no slide release, mag release, etc. I don't see how that revolvers are complicated and less reliable.
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The debate you are entering was settled over 100 years ago. Revolvers are not nearly as reliable as autos. They just are not. I am not a revolver hater and love to use them in IDPA Revolver Division but reliability compared to a semi-auto.....not close. There are copious amounts of information available to you if you wish to do the research.

Some personal observations:

In one match I actually had a small piece of paper from the inside of a grip panel on a 625 come off the grip and work it's way into the lock work jamming the revolver. S&W had placed a sticker of some sort on the panel. Over the years the sticker dried out and fell off.

A piece of lint from a holster can jam a cylinder to the point it will not turn. Happened while practicing.

A good friend of mine used a revolver in IPSC for a couple of years. Half way through a match he would head to the Safe Area to brush out his cylinders. If he didn't he ran the risk of the gun gumming up before the match was over.

There is a reason why military's moved to the semi-auto and it was just because of increased capacity.

As to clearing malfunctions. It is a skill that should be learned for certain but in the last 30 odd years of shooting semi-autos and the last 15 in local competitions I don't think I have had to clear more than a half dozen jams in my autos and all were caused by limp wristing around the left side of a barricade- I am a slow learner it seems. Only one was due to a broken part - an M&P striker broke on an early version of the design. The first M&P's had a striker that failed at about 5,000 rds. I should have replaced mine and hadn't. S&W made a change in the striker shortly after the guns came out.

The revolver has its place in any gun safe and for some - my wife would not be able to manipulate a semi-auto slide, a revolver would be her only option for a self defense gun but for most for dealing with 2 legged threats the semi-auto has to be the only choice to consider.

My American friends that do carry opt for the semi-auto for good reasons.

Take Care

Bob
 
Ruger LCRx Model: 5430
< 2" bbl, 38spl/+p
My stateside carry gun.
It lives in the old family homestead in pa and isn't allowed to come to canada cause it's way too 'badass' and might scare people up here. ;)
My birthday present from my bros.
Goes with my pa ltcf (pa ccw permit) like ice cream and apple pie.
Great purse gun.
 
Humor aside. I have a carry permit, I've had it about 6 years now. I grew up shooting first gun I pulled the trigger on was a 22 revolver, that was about 55 years ago. First carry gun I bought was/is a Taurus 85 5-shot 38 Special snubnose revolver. It is a good quality gun and its factory rubber grips make it comfortable to shoot. It still will buck with +P loads but it is not painful. You can get mild 38 Special Mid-Range target loads to get experience with then move to stiffer loads as you grow.

Other carry guns I have are a Berretta 84 13-shot auto, Colt full size 1911, and a NAA micro revolver in 22WMR. The Berretta 84 is a blow back design and because of that it has about the same recoil as a larger 9mm lock breech. The 1911 is a good reliable gun but is harder to hide, and the 22 mag micro revolver is for when I can't carry anything else.

But I will echo the others' who say to get a 22 and practice with that, and practice a lot.
 
Ultimately it should come down to the individual to decide what best suits them, their capabilities, and their situation. Heck, I've met many people over the years that are just not comfortable with the moving slide and flying brass of an auto. I don't have that problem, but there are plenty of people (who aren't gun nuts) who do have that problem.


Massad Ayoob considers the revolver to be a legitimate option...

Simplicity of administrative handling remains a strong advantage of the double-action revolver, particularly the double-action-only style. From new shooters to the elderly and/or debilitated, it is easier to swing out a cylinder than to rack a slide against strong spring pressure. When that cylinder swings out naked, all its chambers are easy to check by sight and feel. It’s easier for a live cartridge to be left un-noticed in an autoloader’s firing chamber.

Reliability was the cardinal advantage of the revolver for most of the duration of the long-standing argument, though the super-reliable autoloaders of today, typified by the Glock, have largely leveled that side of the playing field. Even today, though, the revolver will run with everything from blanks to snakeshot loads to light “granny rounds” to Elmer Keith Memorial Magnums. The autopistol has a more finite window of reliability with this broad array of ammunition, being geared to the pressure curves of a limited range of power levels. Moreover, a revolver will fire if held in a limp-wristed grasp, and that’s not true of most of even the most highly evolved semi-automatics.


And ended the article with this...

If revolver or semi-automatic is too tough a question to resolve, then a revolver and semi-automatic pistol is a perfectly satisfactory answer. [emphasis added]


The article is worth reading, and points out advantages and disadvantages of both revolvers and autos.

http://www.personaldefenseworld.com/2012/10/revolver-vs-auto/#ra_07_phatchfinal-2


Regardless, someone who's not proficient in clearing malfunctions, in the middle of a confrontation, with one arm/hand wounded or fending off a close quarters attacker, with a less than optimal grip, with a close range or even contact shot..... they might wish they had a wheelgun.

Anyone thinking of CCW (but not familiar with guns) needs to get to a range, try out a variety of handguns, and decide for themselves what is best. Discounting either a revolver or an auto would be a mistake.
 
Calahan said:
..........Anyone thinking of CCW (but not familiar with guns) needs to get to a range, try out a variety of handguns, and decide for themselves what is best. Discounting either a revolver or an auto would be a mistake.
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No one can make that decision within one range trip, IMO. It's too easy to be impressed by a Glock 19, with its ninja looks, quick reload and 10 shot capacity. As well, 95% or more, of the other shooters would probably be shooting semis, and the newbie would be sort of embarassed to be seen handling an ancient looking revolver.

Really, how many range officers nowadays are well versed with handling and shooting revolvers. How can they show the newbie how effective a revolver can be as a defensive tool?
 
It all depends on the person and what they feel comfortable with. It all comes down to the feel in hand, on the hip, and how they shoot it. Being comfortable with your CCW gun is the most important thing. My newest carry gun is a Glock 30 45 ACP with an Alien Gear Cloak Tuck holster. It makes the gun disappear on my hip. It resides at my US home.

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Mike C.
 
How many of you revolver guys practice one handed drills and off hand with it?

That is where revolvers fall apart, especially in a fight

Shawn
 
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