Concealed/Open carry for Canada....ever?

plinker 777 said:
Loki old pal, are you off your meds again? The Hunter was merely pointing out a fact that on occasion road rage happens. Its not a far reach to understand that the two guys involved in punching the sh1t out of each other on the side of a road somewhere, would most likely have no aversion to an "olde tyme duel at high noon" if they were carrying under the same or similar circumstances...take two of the blue ones, wait a half hour then take one of the little pink ones and PM me in the morning 'K? :p

Hunterinthewoods; correct me if I'm misinterpreting your position,you've been doing a fine job explaining yourself so far and you certainly don't need me chiming in or putting words in your mouth, just couldn't resist you understand. Its a weakness.:D
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Its all good
 
G.Mitchell said:
I have lived in the US and carried daily in multiple states for years.

I don't agree with the Canadian system regarding handguns. I think we have the RIGHT to protect ourselves with any means necessary however our government has made that not legally possible for most of us.

I don't think you should need to prove your life is in danger to get a permit. Makes no sense.

I dream that someday we can have the freedom to carry a pistol/handgun for wilderness defense, and maybe during my childrens lifetime they will see the RIGHT to carry for self defense become a reality.

Even "pro gun" gun owners in Canada look down on handguns and self defense. Further claiming we don't need "assault rifles" either.

We need to unify as firearm owners and push for real restoration of firearm rights.
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:agree:
 
For some odd reason I think Canadians will be carrying handguns legally or not within the next 20 years.
 
hunterinthewoods said:
And with all that, what are your required needs to CCW? Not what you think everyone wants to hear on this forum, or what our community needs.....YOUR personnel opinion.
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Preservation of life and well being from grievous bodily harm. Something we're lawfully allowed to do already but not given the tools to do so.

hunterinthewoods said:
Sure some women/infirm/incable persons, may need to defend themselves, are you suggesting that our policing is not up to par?
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Absolutely. Don't get me wrong, I have the utmost respect for our officers and the job they must do, but unless a LEO can be in every pocket/purse/walker and wheel chair response times will always be after the crime has been commited. This could very well lead to having to examine a rape victim or corpse removal.

Follow this up with the requirement to show that you have a job in the outdoors for a WATC and this just gets better. I admit that I'm perpetuating a rumour here but it's been said that the hunter in Alberta that scared off a Grizzly from mauling him used a pistol to do so and is being charged. Even if this isn't a true rumour the fact is that the law is setup that you can't even use a pistol to save your life from an apex predator without criminal charges. I also enjoy all of the outdoor hobbies and sports that you do, I do so in a environment that puts me in direct contact with the largest predators in North America aside from Polar Bear, and while I do so without fear of them I would like to know that I can protect myself and those in my care without facing criminal charges afterward.
 
An old statistic from 2004, shows that 13 people out of 13 million in Toronto had ATC-3 permits, albiet a small percentage, how many people even try for this permit? ATC-3's are a MAY ISSUE permit not a SHANT ISSUE permit. Just saying "bah, that will never happen" is the exact response that is keeping us where we are as Canadians. Attitudes like that just feed into Anti's agenda. I wonder if the CFO's received an influx of ATC-3 pemit applications with attached letters stating reasons one would need such a permtit--how many would slip through the cracks?
 
phhhhhhh CFO piggums won't let a dang single one of those permits through.... he broke the law concerning the registry ... what makes you think that he'd turn the other way when its actually legally his call to make .... I can just imagine him chuckling at the thought !!! ( all 5 of his chins )
 
13 million people in Toronto??


Chip Chipperson said:
An old statistic from 2004, shows that 13 people out of 13 million in Toronto had ATC-3 permits, albiet a small percentage, how many people even try for this permit? ATC-3's are a MAY ISSUE permit not a SHANT ISSUE permit. Just saying "bah, that will never happen" is the exact response that is keeping us where we are as Canadians. Attitudes like that just feed into Anti's agenda. I wonder if the CFO's received an influx of ATC-3 pemit applications with attached letters stating reasons one would need such a permtit--how many would slip through the cracks?
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dimeN said:
phhhhhhh CFO piggums won't let a dang single one of those permits through.... he broke the law concerning the registry ... what makes you think that he'd turn the other way when its actually legally his call to make .... I can just imagine him chuckling at the thought !!! ( all 5 of his chins )
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Imagine every CFO getting these requests, and then follow up letters. Every licensed firearm owner uniting to push the issue and make some changes in this contry. It's already starting to change-->>

http://www.edmontonsun.com/2012/08/25/gunter-citizens-should-be-allowed-force

This case could set a precedent that favors firearms for protection.
 
Chip Chipperson said:
An old statistic from 2004, shows that 13 people out of 13 million in Toronto had ATC-3 permits, albiet a small percentage, how many people even try for this permit? ATC-3's are a MAY ISSUE permit not a SHANT ISSUE permit. Just saying "bah, that will never happen" is the exact response that is keeping us where we are as Canadians. Attitudes like that just feed into Anti's agenda. I wonder if the CFO's received an influx of ATC-3 pemit applications with attached letters stating reasons one would need such a permtit--how many would slip through the cracks?
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Last I checked filing for the permit required an $80 fee. It has also now been changed to reflect requirement for the ATC through employment need only. It used to reflect need through preservation of life, which would require three documented (with RCMP case #'s) attempts against your life and the signature of your local chief of police, but that has been removed last I checked.

Pretty well a guarantee your filing fee will be gone for nothing unless you have employment that requires you to carry.
 
loki_81 said:
Last I checked filing for the permit required an $80 fee. It has also now been changed to reflect requirement for the ATC through employment need only. It used to reflect need through preservation of life, which would require three documented (with RCMP case #'s) attempts against your life and the signature of your local chief of police, but that has been removed last I checked.

Pretty well a guarantee your filing fee will be gone for nothing unless you have employment that requires you to carry.
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Well that sucks. :-(

Might as well just roll over...
 
Is it just me who is curious as to what, if anything, happens after a person applies and is rejected? I'm going to apply after I get set up with competitive shooting and get a chance to take some courses, but I'd like to know if anyone else has done similar. I'm sure there are a few people, but it seems like this might be one of those scenarios where bringing yourself to the attention of the powers that be might result negative results, such as if a person were to state they wanted firearms for self defense while being interviewed for their Restricted. The late night conspiracy theorist in me envisions some bespectacled clerk seeing the application and exclaiming "Oh my!" and immediately calling his supervisor to send some officers by to talk to this "troubled" person.

Somehow it's not even 11pm and I'm considering it a late night. Where did my youth go?
 
Stevebot-7 said:
Is it just me who is curious as to what, if anything, happens after a person applies and is rejected? I'm going to apply after I get set up with competitive shooting and get a chance to take some courses, but I'd like to know if anyone else has done similar. I'm sure there are a few people, but it seems like this might be one of those scenarios where bringing yourself to the attention of the powers that be might result negative results, such as if a person were to state they wanted firearms for self defense while being interviewed for their Restricted. The late night conspiracy theorist in me envisions some bespectacled clerk seeing the application and exclaiming "Oh my!" and immediately calling his supervisor to send some officers by to talk to this "troubled" person.

Somehow it's not even 11pm and I'm considering it a late night. Where did my youth go?
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This is the type of thinking that keeps us just walking whatever line they set for us. The U.S didn't issue carry permits pre-1985, and just 10 years later every state allows it. It would make much more of an impact if there more pro-gun Canadians would start getting together and rallying! I am always hearing so much about the NRA in the United States. Why don't we have this kind of group fighting for more freedom and less gun control? BTW, yes I AM aware of the NFA and CSSA, but we need louder voices and larger numbers. We need the band RUSH to come flying onto a stage with AK-47 shaped guitars, wearing the Canadian flag as a cape, with fireworks going off in the back ground!! We need our own Ted Nugent!!! Rah rah rah!!!!!
 
Maybe we start walking around with empty holsters to raise awareness. The campus carry groups in the US used this to their advantage.

We can't just keep our heads in the sand saying it'll never happen. We need to be pro active.
 
Chip Chipperson said:
This is the type of thinking that keeps us just walking whatever line they set for us.
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And what would you recommend I do? If I step up and make speeches and start shouting that I want to be able to carry my gun and I want it right now, are you going to offer funds to support me? If I quit my job and tour the country, going from town to town and raising awareness are you going to loan me your car? If I start giving free guns to new firearms license applicants, are you going to donate your guns for me to distribute?

As it is, I do not trust the system enough for that. Suppose I take it to the extreme and cancel my range membership and destroy my PAL and walk around town with no license, no ATT, no ATC with a pistol on my hip will you be present on my court date?

I am doing what little I can, I am buying guns and regularly offering to meet people at the range so they can try some shooting, I joined the CSSA and NFA, I am mentioning important issues like the prohibitive restrictions we face, last weekend I was at the Edmonton gun show and asked the NFA rep what they are planning on doing about Cyclone's legal situation. I am not willing to sacrifice my freedom or career for this, I have done my years at the minimum wage grocery store bagging groceries and pushing carts, now I've got an important job to worry about. Right now I'm trying to find the most palatable way to present myself as a carry applicant, and unfortunately that takes time and money. Jumping and screaming naked with my junk in a holster will just get me labeled a nut job and danger to society.

Maybe if I win the lottery I'll become the Canadian Nugent, but until then I've got to pay my bills and live my life. I'm too young to spend tens of thousands of dollars on legal fees or spend years in jail waiting for court dates and hearings.

I am not trying to attack you here, but I'm doing what little I can.
 
Well there Chip, maybe I missed it when I read through all the posts. But what are you doing yourself to make this an issue? I understand your frustration, and saying that we can't just roll over and that we need to push for it rather than sitting back and waiting. But a lot of the people out there that do care about this issue do have lots of other things on their plates. As Stevebot said, maybe if they win the lottery then they'll do a lot more. But right now the most important thing we can do is get more people into the shooting sports, rather than trying to convince everyone we need CCW. We come off as nutz if we push our agenda on everyone without giving them context. Stats are great, but nothing will help our cause more than having someone who isn't a shooter become one. The more people we have on our side the more people we'll have on the side of CCW. But right now there just isn't enough of a will across all the shooters we have.

As for the empty holster idea, I believe its been tried once or twice with little effect (read about it on here, perhaps some of the other members can confirm or correct me if needed). Not enough people take part, the media doesn't give it the coverage, and the public for the most part doesn't seem to take notice. If we could get a huge amount of participants then I imagine Sun news would give us a great article on it. But you need the public to know that it will be happening and when, that way we don't look like a bunch of crazies walking around with empty holsters. But I'd be more than happy to take part if it came together.
 
celtic1123 said:
Well there Chip, maybe I missed it when I read through all the posts. But what are you doing yourself to make this an issue?

Well, celtic1123, what I am doing is bringing up the issue on a forum of like minded individuals. I am promoting gun safety and the sport of shooting in general. I am also looking for as many avenues as possible to push the issue. I don't know if I myself can initiate the change in gun laws that I am wanting. Like every fight that has been fought for some form of right, this one needs numbers. We need to be united. One thing I do know is that we won't make any progress by simply rolling over. I do think the empty holster demonstration is a good idea, but yeah you need more than 10 people showing up, lol.
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Stevebot-7 said:
And what would you recommend I do? If I step up and make speeches and start shouting that I want to be able to carry my gun and I want it right now, are you going to offer funds to support me? If I quit my job and tour the country, going from town to town and raising awareness are you going to loan me your car? If I start giving free guns to new firearms license applicants, are you going to donate your guns for me to distribute?

As it is, I do not trust the system enough for that. Suppose I take it to the extreme and cancel my range membership and destroy my PAL and walk around town with no license, no ATT, no ATC with a pistol on my hip will you be present on my court date?

I am doing what little I can, I am buying guns and regularly offering to meet people at the range so they can try some shooting, I joined the CSSA and NFA, I am mentioning important issues like the prohibitive restrictions we face, last weekend I was at the Edmonton gun show and asked the NFA rep what they are planning on doing about Cyclone's legal situation. I am not willing to sacrifice my freedom or career for this, I have done my years at the minimum wage grocery store bagging groceries and pushing carts, now I've got an important job to worry about. Right now I'm trying to find the most palatable way to present myself as a carry applicant, and unfortunately that takes time and money. Jumping and screaming naked with my junk in a holster will just get me labeled a nut job and danger to society.

Maybe if I win the lottery I'll become the Canadian Nugent, but until then I've got to pay my bills and live my life. I'm too young to spend tens of thousands of dollars on legal fees or spend years in jail waiting for court dates and hearings.

I am not trying to attack you here, but I'm doing what little I can.
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You're whole counter point is simply moot, frendo!

I'm not asking you to do jail time, or spend a bunch of money (don't know where you conjured that!)

I'm sure one of our wealthy Canadian celebrities is pro-gun?! That is what we need--a Canadian Ted Nugent.
 
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