Concentricity Gauge, Yeah or nay.

[burnaby]

Suspect my loads are similar. Lapua brass, 168SMK. Getting SD/ES of ~4/12 on several magnetospeed test. Lee Collet, Forster/Wilson seaters.
Last 40 rnds the seating was +-1thous, eyeball rolling on cast iron table saw was flat.

Use Forster micro for 308, Got wilson micro for 260Rem. Can't decide which I like better but leaning toward wilson (beautifully finished die)

Normally just buy the 21st gauge but got my eyes on a Desert Tech SRS A-1 RIFLE 260rem that is killing my budget.

My 6.5x47 brass out of my Redding type S and Redding seater was insanely good - .001 or less. I'm just getting going with the Redding type S and Forster seater combo, so I'll have to let you know on that....

 

[Gunneegoogoo]

Suspect my loads are similar. Lapua brass, 168SMK. Getting SD/ES of ~4/12 on several magnetospeed test. Lee Collet, Forster/Wilson seaters.
Last 40 rnds the seating was +-1thous, eyeball rolling on cast iron table saw was flat.

Use Forster micro for 308, Got wilson micro for 260Rem. Can't decide which I like better but leaning toward wilson (beautifully finished die)

Normally just buy the 21st gauge but got my eyes on a Desert Tech SRS A-1 RIFLE 260rem that is killing my budget.

Are you Wilson dies for the arbor press??

 

[burnaby]

Yup, use with Eagle mini arbor. Don't recall ever seeing wilson die for a press.

Find the mini arbor has a far better feel for seating tension. Pretty much know the pressure required for consistent base to Ogive CBTO. Agree with comments on the hydro press that after a while you can tell without more fancy gear.
The co-ax has way too much torque, even with ball short handle can't really feel a tight neck.

Are you Wilson dies for the arbor press??

 

[Gunneegoogoo]

That'll be my next reloading purchase for my .308.....

 

[burnaby]

The forester does make it easier to seat 1/2 way, 1/4 turn on brass, then seat fully. Find that trick does help with CBTO.

BUT still likely to get the wilson die. Next purchase is likely 338LM and 300WM, will get the non micro for 50US and the shim kit. Micro is $100, double the cost; most of us likely have pet load for match and maybe another for hunting so micro not needed.

That'll be my next reloading purchase for my .308.....

So are you still measuring concentrically on each rnd, occasional or gauge on shelf?

My 6.5x47 brass out of my Redding type S and Redding seater was insanely good - .001 or less. I'm just getting going with the Redding type S and Forster seater combo, so I'll have to let you know on that....

 

[Gunneegoogoo]

I don't measure each round. With all my setups and measuring I tend to measure like a fiend until things level out and then do it every 10-15 rounds as a quality check.....

I've only loaded precision for my 6.5, and the whole neck turning/ultra type-A is new for my .308, so my gauge isn't in the cupboard but it hasn't been used 1000's of times either....

 

[BC30cal]

burnaby;
Good evening to you sir, I trust this finds you acceptably well.

Years ago I read an article on concentricity gauges and drank all the Kool-Aide therein.

I went forth and priced out the only one available then - can't recall which one it was now for the life of me - and decided I'd build my own.

Mine runs the cases on industrial chromed, carbide balls from spray gun tips I changed out at work - Kremlin I believe they are.

Anyway the stop pin changes the different cartridge case lengths and one can definitely ascertain whether or not the resulting loaded cartridge is concentric or not.

The real question is of course - is this all worth it and are the results a measurable improvement?

The answer for me - not shooting any bench or F-Class rifles was not so much.

I did learn that if I seat a bullet half way in, then spin the case 180° and seat it the remaining way in that it's typically a more concentric result with less run out. That makes me feel better, but I'm not certain my groups improved much because of that or because I was shooting more during the process.

Hopefully that made some sense and was useful for you or someone out there tonight. Good luck with your reloading adventures whichever way you decide sir and all the best to you this spring.

Dwayne

 

[Gunneegoogoo]

Interesting....

Mystic Jerry tells me that the .004 runout I'm seeing with my Forster seaters won't matter..... I hope he's right.

 

[burnaby]

I too luv building my own tools. Did all the plans for my own "Accuracy one gauge" but having second thoughts on how accurate it would be for 1 thous measurements.
Horizontal indicator somewhere in the shop. Got some abec 5 bearings from my fishing reels,....

See reply to your post embedded in RED.

burnaby;
Good evening to you sir, I trust this finds you acceptably well.

Years ago I read an article on concentricity gauges and drank all the Kool-Aide therein.

I went forth and priced out the only one available then - can't recall which one it was now for the life of me - and decided I'd build my own.

Mine runs the cases on industrial chromed, carbide balls from spray gun tips I changed out at work - Kremlin I believe they are.

Anyway the stop pin changes the different cartridge case lengths and one can definitely ascertain whether or not the resulting loaded cartridge is concentric or not.

The real question is of course - is this all worth it and are the results a measurable improvement?

The answer for me - not shooting any bench or F-Class rifles was not so much.
Expect the same answer for me in that 1 thous vs 3 vs 5 thous won't make a difference with my abilities

I did learn that if I seat a bullet half way in, then spin the case 180° and seat it the remaining way in that it's typically a more concentric result with less run out. That makes me feel better, but I'm not certain my groups improved much because of that or because I was shooting more during the process.
Debating 180°/half vs. 90°/quarter turn. Thought on FL sizing and LEE collet it was also 1/4 turn???
Easy to do on press, haven't figure easy way for wilson dies, or may not necessary for wilson dies?

Hopefully that made some sense and was useful for you or someone out there tonight. Good luck with your reloading adventures whichever way you decide sir and all the best to you this spring.
thanks for the info. For now spending what money I don't have on a precision 260Rem

Dwayne

 

[BC30cal]

burnaby;
Good evening to you sir, sorry it took so long for me to get back to you - it's been that kind of day somehow.

Anyway yes you're correct in that I should have written to turn the case 90°. We learned that trick when setting up cutter heads in large shapers at a wood door manufacturing plant. It's amazing how much run out can be absorbed turning things a wee bit.

I've used Lee Precision Collet dies and they do measure out very concentric cases. I've not used Wilson dies yet so sorry I can't give any input there.

Part of looking for extreme measures in something as arcane as reloading does sometimes lead to better everyday practices likely or so I've come to believe.

Then too, shooting is very much a mental game and if we believe we can do better by loading a certain way, then up to a point we sometimes are able to do just that.

Thanks again and good luck in your reloading whichever way you decide.

Dwayne

 

[Kingofalderwood]

Precision? You have to eliminate the variables. Hunting, no required IMHO.

Hunting may not be as critical considering that the majority of your kills are probably between 100 and 150 yards. However, I use it for added confidence. If I can shoot consistent groupings at 200 yards than I feel confident not only in the ammo but also my skills. With my 30/30 its even more pronounced. I tested rounds recently with the 30/30 that amazed me as to accuracy when checking and adjusting the ammo for concentricity. It went from 3" MOA at 100 yards to 1" MOA at 100 yards using Hornady FTX 160g. You can imagine the "spray pattern" I would have had at 200 yards without adjusting the ammo.
IMHO, I cannot see how reloading can be done WITHOUT checking concentricity even for hunting. Id rather blame myself for a bad shot then try to guess if it was the ammo or me. Like you said, "Eliminate the variables."

 

[Dogleg]

I use the RCBS tool, these days mostly to isolate the stage where run-out was being introduced. That lead to many seating plugs being drilled, and a few older sizing dies getting chucked. If I needed more incentive for higher grade brass, that got provided too. Somewhere in there, it became pretty blatant that a typical FL die made straighter ammo than some designer neck dies.

How much reducing run out actually helps is a different matter. Sort out a good sized batch of ammo, then shoot all the zeros and 1s against the 4s -6s if you dare. I had a bunch of freshly formed bunch .338 Edge, necked up from .300 RUM that run up to 15-17 thousands. They were loaded by ramming 300 grain .338 SMKs into the new 300 cases. You wouldn't think that such a unholy and un-natural process would shoot 1/2 MOA at 1/2 mile, but you couldn't tell that to the targets. As an aside, seating .300 grain Elite Hunters the same way results in rather straight ammo so I do that now. Neck tension must be off the chart. Accuracy is about the same.

As handloaders we often agonize over things that might work, or can't hurt, or without being nearly as troubled by actually proving any of it with a rifle.

 

[burnaby]

Totally agree thus still haven't got my Concentricity gauge yet. Most of my precision brass are Lapua using Lee Collet die and Forster or Wilson micrometer seating die so expect the gauge will only confirm my rounds are precise enough for my needs. Someday will cry once with Century 21 or similar Conc. gauge.

...
As handloaders we often agonize over things that might work, or can't hurt, or without being nearly as troubled by actually proving any of it with a rifle.