Concerned with digital weighing - or should I be?

[07blackwater]

I created a poll a while back about scales. There's some good info in the thread.

http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/foru...he-most-reliable-accurate-scale-for-under-350

 

[Grock-co]

Like all things in life if you buy quality and the results reflect, if you buy cheap you will get what you pay for.

 

[ciphery]

Like all things in life if you buy quality and the results reflect, if you buy cheap you will get what you pay for.

I wouldn't always say that, sometimes you are just buying a name not necessarily quality.
Take for instance my buddies $700? Lyman auto scale, you turn it on in a room that is exactly 68*, don't remember the humidity requirement, no fluorescent lights of any kind, no cell phones or cordless devices, no touching the scale or the table, have to let it warm up for 30 min......and then it might work right. Sounds way too finicky for me to invest $700? in.

 

[07blackwater]

I started out with a Lee and absolutely hated it. It took for ever to settle and you couldn't trickle up with it because it sticks. I'd have to dump the charge, tap it, wait for it to settle, tap again....

I upgraded to an RCBS 10-10 I got used on eBay and I couldn't be happier. Settles in an instant and is repeatable. I can trickle on it no problem too. Dump a charge on it and the beam goes down then raises and stops. Boom. Done.

I think it's actually faster than a digital because there's no warm up time and I don't have to recheck to see if it drifts. Very pleased with it and it's what I'd recommend.

 

[riderrick]

worked my loads with my dillon digital.....found the accuracy i wanted without pressure signs....dont care if its out its doing what i need...giving me consistant rounds. the powder tray weights X and some times it moves a .1 here or there re-zero and keep moving along

 

[dead meat]

My Ohaus 5-10 and Chargemaster are within .2 grs with check weights. I also believe in what load i work up for my rifle is good to go in that rifle only and use published data as a guide line only. If your two scales are to far apart then you have to decide which one you trust.

 

[nevanevan]

If the OP is just working up a load to be used with a powder measure i.e every 5th load being checked then I wnyould say a GemPro250 like the one I have is great for adjusting a powder thrower as they aren't nearly as accurate as weighing each load individually. For reloading pistol using a powder drop I bring out the GemPro, for precision rifle where consistancy is absolute, I don't use anything but my 10-10

 

[thump_rrr]

Let me start out by saying that unless you are competing at an extremely high level a decent scale that will measure +-0.1 grain is good enough. If you need a scale (I said need not want) that can measure to 0.01 or 0.02 grains you are also weight sorting your brass into 0.5 grain lots and weighing their water weight along with your bullets.
a properly developed load in the middle of an accuracy node will give sub-MOA accuracy at +-0.1 grains.

An electronic scale even a lower priced one must have a couple of features to be considered.
A/C power supply.
A draft guard.
+-0.1 grain or better accuracy.

A good scale for not that much money is the Jennings Mack 20.
It is made by the same company that makes the Gem Pro but at 1/2 the cost.
Here are some good comments from another firearm forum.
http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=361182

 

[haha49]

The electronic scale I have came with a 100G weight to check it just put it on run the test and it would say ok or not.

 

[thump_rrr]

The electronic scale I have came with a 100G weight to check it just put it on run the test and it would say ok or not.

100 grams = 1543.23 grains.

It is too far from the 4-5 grains you are weighing pistol powders or 25 grains of .223 powder to give you any idea what the scale is doing in that range.

RCBS sells 2 different sets of check weights.
I purchased the deluxe set which I find to be excellent.

 

[dthunter]

I would leave the scale the way it is and carry on. That way your old data is till valid. Since you start low and work up, it does not matter if the scale if off a bit.

By a "bit" and am thinking less than 1 grain. If more than that, re-zero and then subtract the difference to all your old load data.

I definitely agree with this.

 

[Kryogen]

I only use a chargemaster because I don't have time right now double-weighting on a gempro 250 and then trickling.

(If you are a bit anal about it, get a gempro 250, dump powder .5 grains under(whatever method), and then trickle the rest....)

Right now I am quite sure that my shooting variance doesnt come from the chargemaster .1 grain error margin....

 

[577/450]

If you are getting good result with your loads what does it matter?

 

[joe-nwt]

The biggest thing with a beam scale is to push the tray down and let it swing back up and settle out, at least that's what I find with my Lyman. Using this method I can "see" 1 stick of 4350. If I can measure powder down to 1 or 2 kernels the scale is as accurate as it needs to be!!! What's next cutting sticks of powder in half LOL

To check a beam scale, weigh a charge take the pan off then put it back on several times, it should always read exactly the same. Using this method try different things, like pushing the pan down or lifting it up and letting the beam settle, you will learn if your scale is repeatable and learn how to best use it! Checking the repeatability is much more important to me than checking accuracy with weights. Some beam scales don't hinge smoothly and get hung up. If you fined your beam scale is not repeatable check the hinge point for burs or wear or anything else that may be causing problems.

I bought a digital scale and found it would drift up to 1.5grains! I took it back to the store and just keep using my good old Lyman, accurate right down to the last stick!

The same can be applied to a digital. Put the empty pan on the scale. You already know what the empty pan weighs and can tell immediately if your scale has drifted.

 

[TargetAcquired]

If you are getting good result with your loads what does it matter?

Clarity matters. To me anyway. If I work up what I think is an 8 grain load using the other components, etc, and then one day decide to upgrade or otherwise change some equipment, and I'm weighing with something different and getting a slightly different result, I don't want to be scratching my head wondering why my results are a little different when I think I'm doing everything the same.

 

[Republic of Alberta]

The same can be applied to a digital. Put the empty pan on the scale. You already know what the empty pan weighs and can tell immediately if your scale has drifted.

Yes, but it would drift after weighing only a few charges and most importantly was not repeatable, you could take a charge of 40gains and re weigh it after 20 minutes and it would show 41grains. Another problem the digital I had would not read a few sticks of powder sometimes. In other words, I could put some more powder in the pan and it would not show a weight increase. Take the pan off then put it back on and bingo it shows the extra weight.

I work with a lot of instrumentation in my job, both electronic and analog/mechanical stuff. I get to see this stuff screw up all the time. For something as critical as a gun with 60,000psi+ going off in front of my face I will stick to mechanical measurement. The benefit is that I can immediately be notice if there is a problem with it. It is unlikely that even 1 incorrect charge will pass my eye. Can't say the same about digital, even the laboratory grade scales go wonk and you don't know right away.

 

[dthunter]

Yes, but it would drift after weighing only a few charges and most importantly was not repeatable, you could take a charge of 40gains and re weigh it after 20 minutes and it would show 41grains. Another problem the digital I had would not read a few sticks of powder sometimes. In other words, I could put some more powder in the pan and it would not show a weight increase. Take the pan off then put it back on and bingo it shows the extra weight.

I work with a lot of instrumentation in my job, both electronic and analog/mechanical stuff. I get to see this stuff screw up all the time. For something as critical as a gun with 60,000psi+ going off in front of my face I will stick to mechanical measurement. The benefit is that I can immediately be notice if there is a problem with it. It is unlikely that even 1 incorrect charge will pass my eye. Can't say the same about digital, even the laboratory grade scales go wonk and you don't know right away.

I see your point, although,If my electronic scale has a charge left in the pan for more than a few minutes, i just Dump it back into the hopper and let the scale refill the pan. No doubt left for me. I periodically check my scales accuracy/calibration to be sure (every 10-15 rounds).

I have shot more than 2 thousand rounds loaded on the RCBS Chargemaster, and a couple of my long range rifles keep pretty much 1 MOA fairly steady in good conditions (500-1000yds). And about 1.5MOA or less out to 1760 yds (In very good conditions).

This level of performance/consistancy likely wouldnt be possible if the electronic scales were all over the place.
A reloader just has to pay attention to his equipment, and have the confidence in it. i like the balance beam scales
Too, but just dont have the time to tinker with each load like I used to. to be honest, I have seen NO difference in the performance since I swtiched to the electronic scale.

YMMV

 

[curseyou]

I find my RCBS charge master, even after settling down quite a bit after being left on to warm up, cannot compare to my gem pro 250 with similar warm up period. My method is to use the charge master to develop the initial load - 1gr, for speeds sake, then fine tune with my gempro.

 

[dthunter]

I find my RCBS charge master, even after settling down quite a bit after being left on to warm up, cannot compare to my gem pro 250 with similar warm up period. My method is to use the charge master to develop the initial load - 1gr, for speeds sake, then fine tune with my gempro.

Do you really think you can tell the difference from the results on paper?
I "tend" to doubt it.

If you can, please perform this test and post the pictures/info!
If this does make a difference, I may consider a gempro.

 

[the wrench]

It's not as important to be accurate to a standard as it is to be consistent. Your loads should be measured with your scale only and not someone Else's or a different one. If you're out .1 gr from the check weight so what? Just make sure your scale is consistent.