confused about scope import
- Thread starter hermie
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Depends. Some just don't know, or are doing it illegally, while others, such as the guy I dealt with, are importers into Canada and have presumably gone through all the red tape. The seller I got my scope from is irwilley. On his product pages, there's a big red paragraph for Canadians. There didn't seem to be any problems with it getting to my door.
The price for the leupold VX-II I bought was very good for a brand new scope. There may be better, but I saved enough that I don't care. If I had bought it from WSS, I would've spent $150 more or so just for feeling good that I supported a Canadian company...
The price for the leupold VX-II I bought was very good for a brand new scope. There may be better, but I saved enough that I don't care. If I had bought it from WSS, I would've spent $150 more or so just for feeling good that I supported a Canadian company...
For my personal level of comfort, and I am in no way advocating anyone else to do what I do, is that I stay away from anything night-vision related...regular scopes I have bought. I have saved a LOT of money buying scopes from US retailers, notably over $200 on a Nikon Buckmasters 6-18x40SF recently. And no...I didn't have it shipped up to me in Canada because as you have noted, a lot of US retailers don't want to have to go through the hassle of exporting gun related items to Canada.
Hi,
I've bought a couple from the states on EBay...
Most recently a Bushnell Elite 4200 6-24x50 Tactical...
The bottom line... ask the seller... there are many legit sellers... I'd steer clear of anyone who doesn't have the proper papers... mainly because I'd hate to lose the funds I put into a purchase, only to have the scope scooped at the border...
EB
I've bought a couple from the states on EBay...
Most recently a Bushnell Elite 4200 6-24x50 Tactical...
The bottom line... ask the seller... there are many legit sellers... I'd steer clear of anyone who doesn't have the proper papers... mainly because I'd hate to lose the funds I put into a purchase, only to have the scope scooped at the border...
EB
Just to clarify...there are no permits, special papers or clearnces that a US retailer can get to ship rifle scopes into Canada without violating US export regulations. To get any export out of the US for these products the person or company ordering the item must first apply for an import permit from the Canadian Govt. and then send it to the US exporter who applies for his permit the same way in the US. The time frame to complete a legal transaction is usually 2-3 months at minimum and because of this many US retailers won't go through the additional expense and time of doing this for a single or even fairly large sale. Many US dealers are unaware or don't care about the regulations because they think there are no repercussions against them and in many cases they are correct. From time to time these shipments are intercepted on the US side and minimum the items is seized and occasionally the dealer is charged resulting in heavy fines. We don't like this as well because of the additional expense it causes us to do business in Canada due to the distributors adding to our cost or our own expenses of trying to do business directly from the US. We are trying to work these expenses down with our suppliers (and trying to go direct to the source where possible). You should see some prices coming down in the next year mainly to the improved Can. dollar. Phil.
Scopes from the US
I've bought scopes through E-bay and will continue if prices are good. The shipping labels on the packages identify the item as scopes, and have not had any problems. You usually receive the package approx 2 weeks after it's shipped.
I've bought scopes through E-bay and will continue if prices are good. The shipping labels on the packages identify the item as scopes, and have not had any problems. You usually receive the package approx 2 weeks after it's shipped.
Canadian Retail pricing for Nikon Buckmasters 6-18x40SF is $469.99 CAD + taxes.
US Retail pricing for the same scope is around $299.99 USD.
Bought mine for $271.95 USD + $15 shipping = $286.95 USD.
With the GST & PST at the border, it was just over $300 CAD. Will the scope prices come down closer to this price range? Obviously I expect there will be some added cost related to importation...but at over $200 CAD per scope?
US Retail pricing for the same scope is around $299.99 USD.
Bought mine for $271.95 USD + $15 shipping = $286.95 USD.
With the GST & PST at the border, it was just over $300 CAD. Will the scope prices come down closer to this price range? Obviously I expect there will be some added cost related to importation...but at over $200 CAD per scope?
Canada does not require you to have permit paperwork to import anything gun-related, it is the US that requires sellers to obtain export permits. Those are only granted if there is a reciprocal Import Certificate issued by the country receiving the US Export. (There is the issue of actual firearms however and that is different.)
CGN rules prevent me from discussing the obvious circumvention of this, but having said that, Import certificates are dead easy to get.
CGN rules prevent me from discussing the obvious circumvention of this, but having said that, Import certificates are dead easy to get.
Axis Denied
Regular
I am in the process of importing a scope into Canada from US Optics. I was informed by US Optics that only those scopes with MilDot reticles are subject to the US State Departments export paperwork. I chose the MilGap reticle which is basically the same thing. The scope is at the border awaiting clearance since yesterday (October 18th). I did not get an import certificate as I was informed again by US Optics that I would not need one. I will let you know how this process panned out for me when I have more information.
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If you're purchasing optics online for prices that seem too good to be true, beware of Chinese knock-offs. Leupold has actually gone so far as to post this warning on their website:
http://www.leupold.com/corporate/resources/counterfeit-warning/
Not to say that there aren't some legit good deals to be had (clearly there are), but if you're purchasing online from individuals who you don't know and/or obscure storefronts you've never dealt with before - such as those that are often found on eBay - do your best to verify what exactly is being sold before you put your money down. In the case of rifle scopes, one way to do this is to ask the seller for the serial number of the scope that you're considering buying ...then contact the manufacturer to confirm that the serial number exists and matches the scope model (I did this for a new Leupold that I purchased online). Sure, there's ways around that check if you're an all-out crook, but at least it puts a 'grey-area' seller on notice that you aren't going to be satisfied with a Chinese look-alike regardless of the 'savings' and that you're likely to make his life difficult if that's what he ships to you.
http://www.leupold.com/corporate/resources/counterfeit-warning/
Not to say that there aren't some legit good deals to be had (clearly there are), but if you're purchasing online from individuals who you don't know and/or obscure storefronts you've never dealt with before - such as those that are often found on eBay - do your best to verify what exactly is being sold before you put your money down. In the case of rifle scopes, one way to do this is to ask the seller for the serial number of the scope that you're considering buying ...then contact the manufacturer to confirm that the serial number exists and matches the scope model (I did this for a new Leupold that I purchased online). Sure, there's ways around that check if you're an all-out crook, but at least it puts a 'grey-area' seller on notice that you aren't going to be satisfied with a Chinese look-alike regardless of the 'savings' and that you're likely to make his life difficult if that's what he ships to you.
US Optics is wrong in their explanation about only mildot recticel scopes requiring paperwork. If you are in doubt check what happened to Midway for selling scopes into Canada without permits...they received a huge fine. Phil.
The military or dual use items require State Dept approval for export. Non military/dual use items require Commerce dept approval. Commerce Dept certificates are quicker to get, but I can't believe US Optics obtained one without first submitting an import cert on your behalf.
open-sights
Regular
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- Aldergrove BC
Also, most product imported from the States will need to be warrantied in the States!
That's not a problem for me...I just sent a scope back for warranty last week (it's a cheapo one with a lifetime warranty that my .30-06 destroyed in 12 shots). It takes me just as long (sometimes less) to drive to Sumas as it does to Vancouver.
If I've learned one thing though...is never to go really cheap on optics for rifles that have a lot of recoil again. I think I'll stick to Nikon or better from now on.
I bought a Zeiss for a really good price from a dealer ( holstersupply)in the US. The dealer has a very high rating 7000+ and 99.9% positive feedback. They quoted a canadian shipping price and made no mention of any problems with shipping across the border. Purchased on Oct 07 and USPS and Canada Post shows it crossed the border into Vancouver on the 16th. No movement since. Got my fingers crossed but starting to wonder. Does anyone have a customs contact # to find out whats happening?
At least if I dont get it , my moneys covered thru the credit card but its always such a pain. Next time I may have to look at irwilley or someone like that.
At least if I dont get it , my moneys covered thru the credit card but its always such a pain. Next time I may have to look at irwilley or someone like that.
That cheapo scope that I sent back for warranty (to Barska in California) was sent from Langley on October 10 via Canada Post. I received the replacement scope in the mail a few days ago...no problems across the line. Total turn around time was just over 2 weeks to my door, and it cost me around $17-20. No additional charges incurred when I received the brand new warranty replacement scope.
Maybe I just got lucky...
Maybe I just got lucky...
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/nfa/nfa_handbook/chapter11.pdf
11.1.2 Firearms and firearm component parts subject to the AECA. As stated in Section 11.1,
firearms and component parts of firearms are included in Categories I and II of the U.S. Munitions List.
11.1.2.1 Category I. Category I covers nonautomatic and semi-automatic firearms to caliber .50
inclusive (12.7 mm), as well as fully automatic firearms to .50 caliber inclusive. This category also
covers silencers, mufflers, sound and flash suppressors, and rifle scopes manufactured to military
specifications. Excluded from Category I are non-combat shotguns with barrel lengths of 18 inches
or longer. In other words, sporting shotguns not subject to the NFA are not defense articles subject
to State Department export controls. Category I also covers components, parts, accessories and
attachments for firearms. However, it excludes rifle scopes and sighting devices not manufactured
to military specifications, as well as accessories and attachments (for example, belts, slings, after
market rubber grips, cleaning kits) for firearms that do not enhance the usefulness, effectiveness, or
capabilities of the firearm, components, and parts. The Department of Commerce regulates the
export of firearms and parts not covered by Category I. Therefore, see the Commerce’s regulations
in 15 CFR Parts 730-799 for export controls over those items.
11.1.2 Firearms and firearm component parts subject to the AECA. As stated in Section 11.1,
firearms and component parts of firearms are included in Categories I and II of the U.S. Munitions List.
11.1.2.1 Category I. Category I covers nonautomatic and semi-automatic firearms to caliber .50
inclusive (12.7 mm), as well as fully automatic firearms to .50 caliber inclusive. This category also
covers silencers, mufflers, sound and flash suppressors, and rifle scopes manufactured to military
specifications. Excluded from Category I are non-combat shotguns with barrel lengths of 18 inches
or longer. In other words, sporting shotguns not subject to the NFA are not defense articles subject
to State Department export controls. Category I also covers components, parts, accessories and
attachments for firearms. However, it excludes rifle scopes and sighting devices not manufactured
to military specifications, as well as accessories and attachments (for example, belts, slings, after
market rubber grips, cleaning kits) for firearms that do not enhance the usefulness, effectiveness, or
capabilities of the firearm, components, and parts. The Department of Commerce regulates the
export of firearms and parts not covered by Category I. Therefore, see the Commerce’s regulations
in 15 CFR Parts 730-799 for export controls over those items.
Note that the State Department controls export of Category 1 items, and that the Commerce Department controls the export of non-category 1 items.
So, a scope would require either State Department or a Commerce Department approval for export, depending on whether it is considered to be military or civilian.
Those folks who are obtaining these goods from the US without the necessary documentation should be sure to name the US seller, who is violating US export controls. It makes investigation and prosecution that much easier. Remember that Midway was successfully prosecuted and assessed hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of fines based on their shipping records; they were fined about a thousand dollars for every scope exported.
Also make sure that any eBay purchases are announced here. eBay is anti-gun, and has all the sales information. eBay has discontinued sale of most gunparts. If they decide to discontinue the sale of firearm optics, because of illegal exports, everyone will be better off.
Basically what I am suggesting is that if you are going to participate in something illegal, keep your mouth shut, and don't trumpet it over the internet.
tiriaq :
I guess I need to thank you for the kind words first.
Second, again, I'm not to involve neither myself nor anybody else in any even remotely illegal activity.
As far as non-category I goes, the only other one is category II that is to do with calibers over .50 and related items for those calibers:
11.1.2.2 Category II. This category covers guns over caliber .50, as well as all other components, parts, accessories, attachments and associated equipment specifically designed or modified for such guns.
Also, I may have been misled by a few US retailers and dealers but all of them told me same thing where I could legally buy, and take with me across the line any 'hunting' or 'sporting' scope as long as it's not classified as military spec., no paperwork required. I'm not in this business and if you are you don't need to worry about me being your competitor; but I think there may be others who would like to and can take advantage of still legal way of saving their money buying a scope for their own needs in US.
As a matter of fact, even some of NightVision scopes are allowed to be exported from US freely: http://www.nightvisionexperts.com/corporate-policies.html#export
The example of the dealer above may satisfy your hunger to report 'illegal' activities but for some reason I believe they are legit.
If moderators conclude I'm in the wrong, I understand I can be banned from this board. I would not like to do that to myself but be a part of this community and educate myself and others of their rights if it's in my power.
Sorry for the longish post.
I guess I need to thank you for the kind words first.
Second, again, I'm not to involve neither myself nor anybody else in any even remotely illegal activity.
As far as non-category I goes, the only other one is category II that is to do with calibers over .50 and related items for those calibers:
11.1.2.2 Category II. This category covers guns over caliber .50, as well as all other components, parts, accessories, attachments and associated equipment specifically designed or modified for such guns.
Also, I may have been misled by a few US retailers and dealers but all of them told me same thing where I could legally buy, and take with me across the line any 'hunting' or 'sporting' scope as long as it's not classified as military spec., no paperwork required. I'm not in this business and if you are you don't need to worry about me being your competitor; but I think there may be others who would like to and can take advantage of still legal way of saving their money buying a scope for their own needs in US.
As a matter of fact, even some of NightVision scopes are allowed to be exported from US freely: http://www.nightvisionexperts.com/corporate-policies.html#export
The example of the dealer above may satisfy your hunger to report 'illegal' activities but for some reason I believe they are legit.
If moderators conclude I'm in the wrong, I understand I can be banned from this board. I would not like to do that to myself but be a part of this community and educate myself and others of their rights if it's in my power.
Sorry for the longish post.
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