Conservation Officers and rifles

Got stopped by a cop one night around midnight for a routine traffic stop. After all the license, insurance, and ownership was produced and found in order, and he was about to leave, I asked for his name or badge number. He asked why I wanted it. I said because his manner was very "chippy" - the word I used. He said he wouldn't give it to me as he "didn't do any thing wrong". He abruptly turned on his heels and returned to his vehicle and quickly u turned in the darkness away. Never could see a plate number or car number because of his headlights.

I don't think he was playing by rules denying my reasonable request. Makes me wonder about other authorities too like COs - do they play by the rules always. Alot of authoritarian nonsense can be glossed over by the "just doing their jobs" sentiment.
 
I always cooperate fully with CO's. I think that it is a thankless & potentially dangerous job without hazard pay. In 20 years of fishing/hunting in Ontario, I have only been stopped once by a CO. I was fishing in a tiny brook trout stream & a CO happened to drive by & see me fishing in the creek. He stopped, backed up his truck & got out to check me out. I thought he came across as quite rude. He treated me like I was already a criminal, kept his hand on his gun the whole time. After he was finished interrogating me, then he started getting friendly, asking me how I had caught the 3 ten inch brookies I had in my creel. I think what bothered me the most was he never took off his mirrored cop glasses, & since he had treated me so rudely in the begining I just didn't feel much like chatting with him. Since this is my only experience with Ontario CO's I don't have anything to compare it too.

On the flip side, I lived in New Jersey for a couple of years in the late 90's. I got stopped numerous times while fishing in their blue ribbon trout streams. The CO's I met there were always very friendly & polite. Most always opening the conversation with something like "Good morning Sir. How are you? Can I bother you for a few minutes?(Big smile)". Totally disarming. Most of them were 25 years older than me, but still called me "Sir". I would always have a nice conversation with these officers, & walk away with a smile on my face, instead of a bad taste in my mouth.

George
 
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I've never had a problem with a fishcop. Except one time I just crawled into my floattube, and paddled about twenty or thirty yards from shore, when one finally got out of his truck, and asked to see my fishing licence. :bsFlag: I did get stopped by the mounties once though. A buddy and I were going to a new area to try a shoot a whitetail. I was in my then custom hunting rig, a.k.a our pontiac sunfire. :D (My wife always loves it when I leave the truck at home to go hunting :p) A mountie had a check stop set up in the middle of nowhere, at a gravel crossroad and stopped us. He asked if we were going hunting, and I told him yes. He asked to see our PAL's, and we happily showed him. He then asked to see my registration certificates, and I told him no. (I didn't have them anyways, but with the amnisty, I could have been using an unregistered rifle, I wouldn't have cared.) he gave me a disheartened look, and told us to have a nice day and be careful. :wave:
 
Appears to me that some of us have a chip on their shoulder and do not care about the damage and negative effects they creat on our community, in my area most CO's are responding to negative feed back from land owners and it takes many non-profitable encounters to hopefully achieve success. He may have been subjected to several of the rednecks some of you appear to be and each bad event we give him will erode his will to benefit us.
As for those foolish enough to think that turning game and crown land over as private holdings, hope you have unlimited bank accounts because that will be the only you'll get to fish/hunt/explore/camp. We tend to blame everyone else for the restrictions placed on us, when in reality most came about because we gave reason to cause concern through our own actions and attitudes.
 
The OPP around here routinely do ridealongs with the C.O.'s . You can be 30 miles back in a logging road doing 5 kph and if you get pulled over the OPP will give you a seat belt ticket . Happens lots . One buddy was asked to get out of the truck and then the C.O asked him to reach back in and hand over his lever action rifle . Buddy went to open the action before handing it over only to recieve a kick in the nuts and have a pistol pointed at him . A few of the favorite tricks around here are life jackets , paddles or gas cans on the side of logging roads . Looks like someone lost them but as soon as you pull over the C.O.'s hit your truck from both sides . Some of the C.O.'s have a great sense of humor . They will wait until the goose hunters lay out thier decoys and then get in thier blinds out in the cornfields and then the C.O. will lay on the horn and with an arm gesture will motion all of the hunters over to his truck to check tags . Apparantly it's even more funny if they know where a hunter is up a treestand or over a bear bait . They'll blow the horn until the hunter climbs back down the tree or comes off his bait and comes to the truck to get checked out .

Late last fall my brother got busted for having a loaded gun in a vehicle . 4 guys out in moose camp , which is one of the guys summer cottages , and brother got up very early one morning . Fresh snow had fallen most of the night so brother decided to walk around a two mile swamp before breakfast looking for moose or fresh tracks . Loaded his .270 and off he went . When he returned the other guys were up making breakfast . Brother kicked some snow away from behind his jeep and propped the rifle up against it rather than take it into the heat of the cabin . The rifle was loaded but nothing chambered , the butt was on the ground and the front sight was leaning against the spare tire . During breakfast the C.0.'s drove in and the first thing they wanted to know was who owned the rifle . They charged brother with having a loaded gun in a vehicle . Brother told them that it's not chambered , it isn't in the vehicle and by the snow it's obvious that the jeep hasn't moved in 2 days . Brother decided to go to court and explained everything to the justice of the peace and had his 3 buddies as witnesses . The justice decided that 'in the vehicle' actually means touching the vehicle and brother paid a hefty fine .

Maybe where you guys live the C.O's are all noble and are there to protect wildlife but i don't see it around here . Mean while the natives haul spawning walleye out of the rivers with pitchforks by the truckload and shoot moose 12 months per year and nothing is done .
 
The local rcmp have been known to use CO's to bust grow ops without a warrant. CO knocks on the door while the RCMP are parked at the end of the driveway. CO states that he's had a report of poaching and he wants in to inspect the freezers for game.

Once inside he searches until he figures out where the grow is, then demands to see inside. Out to the truck to report he found a grow, and the RCMP come up the driveway. I heard this from a carpenter that was doing some work for my family and I, apparently he served 18 months.

On the flip side of the coin, when I lived in Banff National Park a park warden (closest thing to a CO in a national park) told me of a pissing match they were in with the RCMP. Apparently a warden got a speeding ticket and felt they should have let him slide, so now all the wardens were issuing tickets to RCMP officers every chance they got. :D

He told me this because he was selling me his pickup and was warning me to drive very carefully until the local cops got to know that it wasn't a warden's truck anymore.
 
My wife and I spent the afternoon bombing around the backroads in the mountains today. We stopped at the local Subway down there for lunch. One CO was watching a baby in a childseat, while his mother was eating. I looked at the CO and asked if he was contemplating writing the kid a ticket. :D
 
Here in BC the Co's are almost a joke. Just like the DFO they have all this power and authority, het they only are able to use it on non-natives.
It is not their fault, it is the fault of the modern two tiered system of rights that we have in Canda.
It makes it awful hard to listen to them talking about conservation, and the long term vaibility of hunting when certain segments of the polulation are seeminly free to do what they will.
I've only had one bad dealing with a CO and IMO he was a lying sack of $hit. Luckily when I fought the ticket, I won.
 
All of the above ....:bsFlag:

In my younger and stupider years, I have had my run in with the cops and CO's as well. When the smoke cleared, I have always found out that I was indeed in the wrong. Since then, I've grown older and wiser. Several years ago, I shot a coyote, out of season and on land without permission. The CO gave me a ticket, I had to go to court and lost my hunting privileges for one year. Did I go on a rant and hate for all CO's?....no, in fact I recognized the fact that I had broken the law. That Co and I became good friends. Why can't you guys see that Co's are not your enemy? Just stick to the rules and you'll be fine.
 
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When I was young and foolish, and still free enough to hunt ducks 2 or 3 times a week, I mouthed off at a CO who I thought was taking too long checking me out and wasting the last hour of hunting for the day. He stopped me every time he saw me after that. 2 or 3 times a week for 4 months. Every time he would check every shell for lead shot, check how many shells my gun held, and check every nook and cranny of my truck for evidence of "illegal activity". One day he asked me if my dog had all her shots. That is when I started calling his supervisor. He transferred away the next year. I think we both had lessons to learn.
 
My experiences with Conservation officers have been positive, without a fault. Any time I have been stopped, they have been civil and just doing their job. Got a ticket for trespassing once....my fault, didn't realize I was on private property. I figured the $100.00 was well spent, could have been $1000.00 under the trespass act. Alway treat them as I would like to be treated. and generally they reciprocate in kind. They have a sh***y job, with people full of resentment giving them a hard time. If one did treat me unfairly, I would be quick to point that out to the CO. They are not above the law. Regards, Eagleye.
 
two years ago I was hunting with my native friend in my jeep. He took a spike mule deer 1 week before they opened (opened for me that is, its his land, their allways open for him).

there was no one around, we didnt see another person the entire day. that night a CO nocked on my door stating that they had a report of a mule deer being taken out of season.

was I mad ? no way, I was impressed, there are only two CO's in my area, and its a huge area ! another good citizen had reported what looked fishy and the system worked. I gave the CO my friends name and number and he went on his way. my friend called me to tell me the CO asked for his status number and his cheif to verify that he was a member of the band.

we were both happy to see that even with extremely underfunded, undermaned posts these guys are doing their best to get the job done and keep everything on the up and up for everyone.
 
I have never had any issues with any C O's except for one major dust up in Greenwood Conservation when I was 20 years old. Crazy Mo-Fo tried to peel me off my Yamaha by my adams apple in front of about 200 witnesses! That one made the second page of the Oshawa-Times in August 1975, headline read "Motorcyclist assaulted by Conservation Officer!"! Truth is I used him for a speed-bag and then charged him with assault.:cool:
The long and short of it is there are many wack jobs on both side of the fence. If your not breaking the law your usually better off to be compliant and let the Warden do his job.:eek:
Unfortunately we are only hearing one side of this age old controversy... not many game wardens are posting here with their horror stories about dealing with crazy S.O.B's with guns and hunting stupid!:runaway:
 
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BIGREDD said:
Unfortunately we are only hearing one side of this age old controversy... not many game wardens are posting here with their horror stories about dealing with crazy S.O.B's with guns and hunting stupid!:runaway:

You might be on to something here BIGREDD! I bet there would be a lot of interest in reading those stories and it would give people a sense of the other side of things. Great idea!
 
Republiman said:
Declare all game and property to be private, and get rid of the need for tags, hunting licences, etc. Sell off all Crown land and provincial parks.

When landowners are able to charge hunters and anglers a fee for the game they bag on their property, they'll have a definite interest in ensuring that sustainable hunting practices occur. It eliminates subjecting hunters to the Gestapo and eliminates the costly bureaucracy of land administration, relieving the taxpayers.

I thought you had to be at least 16 to post here?
 
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here in AB, CO powers have been drastically reduced, they are no longer "peace officers" and now have little or no powers of arrest or detainment. They are now bylaw enforcement officers in reality.

Crappy deal really, I have always had positive experiences with them in the past. This whole situation was brought about because they wanted to be armed (with a sidearm) and a court agreed indicating if they are "peace" officers they should be armed.

So the province stripped their peace officer duties and told them to turn in their badges etc. I would have expected that from say, BC not Alberta! Heck even Sask officers are armed!
 
fishcops

From spending a lifetme in the "bush" doing fun things, I've come to realize that COs are like veryone else. There are professionals in every field of work and there are incompetents as well. Not everyone graduates at the top of the class. Certainly there are those that are reasonable and those that are unreasonable.

I have met and "worked" with COs through the years that were great guys, Some of these are friends now. But I have met others who were incompetent, unprofessional, and a disgrace to their job and themselves.

My encounters with the latter, have never been the result of my "having something to hide", "doing something wrong" or my attitude.

I am old school and I'm smart. So while I may not always agree with a particular law, I do respect the rule of law. I also realize what is involved in the job that anyone in enforcement does. I don't buy into the "Dangerous thankless job" school of thinking to excuse bad judgement, unprofessionalism or outright abuse of power. There are plenty of occupations that are dangerous and thankless.
So What??


This is the kind of thing I'm talking about:

In B.C. F/W used to set up a game check at Cache Creek. It was set up through the whole hunting season 24/7. There were signs on the highway into town, directing vehicles with firearms or hunters to report.

3:30 a.m. my partner and I are returning from a hunting trip. We pull into the gravel parking lot. No other vehicles around.
A guy in a uniform comes out of the shack, and comes up to the truck as we are stretching and getting the back opened for him to check whatever he thinks needs checking. As he comes up we both said "hello, how's it going eh?" His response, 'I want to check your weapons", not firearms, "weapons".

I said no problem. The camper was packed to the door with "Stuff" from two weeks hunting. I took the first guncase out and removed my Rem. 1100 Shotgun. I opened the action and handed it to him. He immediately started berating me for not letting him open the case or the firearm, not because he was concerned for his safety, but it may have had a shell in it and that "is against the law". I told him I had been a firearms instructor for many years and one of the things I taught was to never hand someone an "empty" gun without the action closed.

He proceed to work the action several times, looking for a live round. He then took a piece of garden hose and inserted it in the magazine. The hose had been marked to indicate the length of two shells. When it was prevented from going in further, it meant that the mag was indeed "legally plugged".

Not satisfied with this, he began to unscrew the cap on the top of the magazine. I asked what he was doing and he told me he was checking to see if the "plug" was in the mag. We had the discussion that he had already checked and I had concerns that what he was doing was unnecssary.
All this was done in a quiet, non confrontational manner, since by then I realized I was dealing with one of the grads from the bottom of the class.
He then ordered me to step away from him [ 6 feet was in his comfort zone] as he continued to unscrew the cap.

As we backed away, the cap came off, the spring inside the mag took flight, and he dropped the cap on the ground. When he looked down at the cap, the barrel fell off my shotgun into the gravel. As he looked at us with the OMG look!!, we heard the spring come down in the lot. All of this in the dark.

At this point a second guy came out, and asked what was going on. While I explained to him, the first guy went looking for the spring.

Fish cop 2 apologized for his over zealous partner and said he was new:eek:

How new?? about a year.:eek:

When he came back with the spring I asked for the friction ring. He said he couldn't find it and really had no idea what I was talking about.. "Great I'm out $40 because of your crap!!"

FC2 pulled him aside and had a pow wow. He announced that FC1 was gong to pay the $40 out of his pocket.
I took the money, and we went on our way. They did not check other firearms, licenses or anything else.

When we got down the hwy, my partner said" I didn't know the 1100 had friction rings." I said it doesn't , my old browning did.:D

I have had bad experiences on other occassions as well. The last one cost me $2500 to have the judge chew out the CO and throw the charges out.
He developed a bad case of " I don't recall" when he was cross examined.
Sounded like he had Alzheimer"s.


I've had a CO harrass us for the better part of 3 weeks, at least twice or three times a day. Checking licenses etc. Before the hunt was over, I drove over 300 miles round trip to make a complaint. His career as a CO ended within a few months. He should never have been hired.

I have seen the dedication of some COs as well, and am proud to call them my friends. They love their job, they are professional, and they work a lot of hours for nothing, because of that dedication. These are the ones that deserve our respect and co-operation.

I have had them ride into my camp on horseback at 7000 feet, at 11 p.m.
He had been in the saddle since daylight, because that was the only way to check the area. He had coffee and carried on down the trail, still nearly 2 hours to his camp.

I've had them help us skid a moose out in -30 and snow up to our armpits if we had no snowshoes on.

We have taken them for hours in the mountains, on horseback, across rivers where they were so scared they just held on to the horn and closed their eyes, to catch some sheep poachers.

There are good ones and bad ones, the problem is when you do happen to get a bad one it costs you. Time, money, and most importantly respect and support for the guys that are doing the job properly.

I follow the law and try to treat everyone with respect. But that does not mean I allow my rights or my person to be abused.
 
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