Correct...you always aim for the green, as that is right in the middle of the colour spectrum, or the "vitals" of the rainbow
Considering a larger caliber hunting rifle
- Thread starter bigtuna81
- Start date
Correct...you always aim for the green, as that is right in the middle of the colour spectrum, or the "vitals" of the rainbow
nowarningshot
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
When someone asks me a choice for a one rifle hunter i say 30-06, 7 mag, 300 WM in a good bolt gun. Some add the 270 to that. Really your 270 and 7 effectively do the same job. The 270 for the much more common deer hunts, not a slouch on Moose either. But if you want to go bigger than the 7 mag, i have to agree there is not a lot of difference between a 7 and 300, a bigger difference between the 270 and 300.
Most of us started with one or two, i now have 16 centerfires capable of big game. If you are going that direction and will fill in each bore from 6mm to say 375 eventually....well it does not matter if you go only 284-308 bore....but if this is were you are going to stop....a wider gap.
The thing that strikes me about your initial post is that that you do not reload. If this is again going to remain the same, then buy Walmart calibers. Of the "big calibers" you have listed 300 WM is the most common, easily available and relatively cheap. Next would be 338 WM, with prices starting at about $50/box. Some of the calibers listed are not readily available except in large centers, and some like the 338 Lapua are $5-6/round in factory ammo.
Given your choices, IMO, if i was too expand the herd in the future and not reload.....300 WM. If reloading is in the future and you are done at two centerfire rifles...then the 338 WM.
35 and 375 calibers are too expensive unless you reload...period. Really even the projectile can be easily $1.50/projectile....but at least its not $80-120 a box of factory. If you buy a rifle bigger than say 300 WM, budget $50 for a good recoil pad.
Most of us started with one or two, i now have 16 centerfires capable of big game. If you are going that direction and will fill in each bore from 6mm to say 375 eventually....well it does not matter if you go only 284-308 bore....but if this is were you are going to stop....a wider gap.
The thing that strikes me about your initial post is that that you do not reload. If this is again going to remain the same, then buy Walmart calibers. Of the "big calibers" you have listed 300 WM is the most common, easily available and relatively cheap. Next would be 338 WM, with prices starting at about $50/box. Some of the calibers listed are not readily available except in large centers, and some like the 338 Lapua are $5-6/round in factory ammo.
Given your choices, IMO, if i was too expand the herd in the future and not reload.....300 WM. If reloading is in the future and you are done at two centerfire rifles...then the 338 WM.
35 and 375 calibers are too expensive unless you reload...period. Really even the projectile can be easily $1.50/projectile....but at least its not $80-120 a box of factory. If you buy a rifle bigger than say 300 WM, budget $50 for a good recoil pad.
The OP stated he had two rifles - the 270 and 7 mil - one he has owned for 5 years, the other for a year.
He stated he doesn't reload so he is at the mercy of commercial offering. In that light I compared typical "off the shelf" rounds that would be considered suitable for moose in the two calibers I compared.
Yes, if you reload you could compare apples to apples - but I simply compared "off the shelf" apples to apples, because unless he takes up reloading, that's the only "apples" he can compare.
If he can't take down a moose at 500+ yards with his 7 mil then the 300 won't improve that. A miss at that distance with a 7 mil or a miss with a 300 is still a miss but a 300 may give a false sense of security and let someone pull the trigger when they really shouldn't.
The OP didn't state whether he is capable of making a 500+ yard shot with the 7 mil and if he can't then changing calibers won't improve that. And while a moose is a big animal, have shot many, at 500 yards you are hard pressed to tell them from a rock or a stump.
He stated he doesn't reload so he is at the mercy of commercial offering. In that light I compared typical "off the shelf" rounds that would be considered suitable for moose in the two calibers I compared.
Yes, if you reload you could compare apples to apples - but I simply compared "off the shelf" apples to apples, because unless he takes up reloading, that's the only "apples" he can compare.
If he can't take down a moose at 500+ yards with his 7 mil then the 300 won't improve that. A miss at that distance with a 7 mil or a miss with a 300 is still a miss but a 300 may give a false sense of security and let someone pull the trigger when they really shouldn't.
The OP didn't state whether he is capable of making a 500+ yard shot with the 7 mil and if he can't then changing calibers won't improve that. And while a moose is a big animal, have shot many, at 500 yards you are hard pressed to tell them from a rock or a stump.
Here's an apples to apples comparison. A 7mm Rem and .300 Win, both my rifles. Both are handloaded with the same enthusiasm, both with maximum charges according to the Hodgdon site, and both beat the "book" velocities. Both have 26" barrels and tight chambers. Both are loaded with Accubonds 160s and 180 which have very similar S.D.s so by that reckoning should be about equal. B.C.s are also very similar with a slight edge to the 7mm.
With the 200 yard zero you used the 7mm @ 2950 has a drop of 38.68" @ 500 yards
Also with a 200 yard zero the 300 Win @ 3150 has a drop of 33.96" @ 500 yards.
Unless I'm mistaken that makes the 300 5 inches flatter, 100 and some fps faster and about 400 foot-pounds smackier (25%)at 500 yards. Throw in about 17 % more frontal area (since they are the same bullet design) and 12% more weight cause some people like that. Seems to me that the only thing the 7mm does better is kick less. It probably doesn't make much difference to a rainbow though.
Thanks for all the info, I have lots to still think about. I'm not one to rush a purchase and appreciate the different points being made. I agree about store bought rounds, I do live close cabelas and whole sale sports where I can mostly find any rounds that are made and p&d is just downtown. Ammo availability is one thing I take into consideration when buying a rifle. I hope to start reloading in the next year or so. I had a bunch of equipment a few years back but was foolish and got married and had a few kids and sold it off.as they get older and can join me at a range I will have more time to shoot.
I am well aware of the capabilities of my 7 that why I had initially choose that caliber but being i am using my 270 win for deer the thought of going bigger intrigued me. I would sell off my 7 if I purchase another rifle.
As for now, no I am not comfortable taking a 500 yard shot while hunting but I hope to practice and work my way up to that yardage and maybe beyond. I really enjoy the ballistics aspects of long range shooting and understanding the science/physics that go with it.
Thanks again for all the feedback and keep it coming
I am well aware of the capabilities of my 7 that why I had initially choose that caliber but being i am using my 270 win for deer the thought of going bigger intrigued me. I would sell off my 7 if I purchase another rifle.
As for now, no I am not comfortable taking a 500 yard shot while hunting but I hope to practice and work my way up to that yardage and maybe beyond. I really enjoy the ballistics aspects of long range shooting and understanding the science/physics that go with it.
Thanks again for all the feedback and keep it coming
BigUglyMan
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- New Scotland
I too was hoodwinked by the thread title. I thought this was going to be another guy who wants a 375 and then a horde of inexperienced shooters telling him not to. Now I've got Dogleg spouting off about the difference between the 7RM and 300WM and the OP telling us that he's going to dummy Bullwinkle outside a quarter mile.
I need another coffee.
I need another coffee.
- Location
- Rockland, ON
Hi. I too use factory ammo and I own a 300 Win Mag that I have shot lots. My comments here are based on my personal moose hunting experiences. Usually I will use the advanced technology ammo on the hunt but as they tend to be pricey I shoot a lot more of the lower cost proven performance ammo in practice. In terms of bullet drop, I relate bullet drop to my shooting skill. To ensure a long range kill I need to know the drop. I read the techy stuff and try to get that performance at the range so that I know in the field what to expect in terms of how much the bullet will drop at the time/range of the shot required. Not having access to a 500 yd plus range to practice at I've always wondered exactly how much 40+/- inches of hold-over is on a moose at 500 yards? So, I've decided I would prefer field shots out to 300 yds. I sight all my guns out to a POA of 250-275 yds. If the game is farther out than 300 yds I make a commitment to stalk or call it closer or to pass. In terms of energy; I use the advice of many of the outdoor writers I've read. For moose the POC energy should be +/- 2000 ft lbs. In my own experience the 300 Win Mag exceeds every one of my needs. In the hands of another shooter with different skills and ammo other than what I use a 300 Win Mag will far exceed the 300 yd limit I impose on it. I don't have experience with the 338 Win Mag but from what I've read with 225 grain AccuBond CT ammo it can deliver 2052 ft lbs of energy at 500 yards. Sure seems like a good choice for distance moose.
Unless you shoot a moose in the spine, head or large shoulder bone, you won't be getting "serious knock down" from your 338. I've lung shot moose and a caribou with a 375magnum and they just stood there trying to figure out what just happened until they died. I personally would avoid a shoulder shot due to meat loss and neck shots can be iffy.
I only say that because a lot of folk will buy a large magnum thinking it will be the be the awesome knocker downer for moose and find out otherwise.
Agree... moose are big animals, and the difference in kinetic energy between a .30/30 and .458 is inconsequential as it relates to its application on a lung shot (which is where y'all should be aiming)... it displaces more frothy, water-filled tissue, but has little impact on the position of it's hooves... long story short, it will go down in short order, just not with the internet favorite "bang flop..."
Sask_Hunter
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Saskatchewan
Take the money you would use to buy the new rifle and spend it on loading gear and components. When you've burned up all the powder and sent all the bullets down range you will be miles ahead of where you would be with another rifle.
- Location
- Rockland, ON
Yeah, moose are big critters. Me and the guys I hunt moose with have been very successful over the years. Every moose, we've shot at we've killed (calves, cows and bulls) but every one, except for one big bull, has run off after being hit, some further than others. We've shot them with 308, 30-06, 300 Win Mag and one of the boys used a 30-378. The big bull that didn't run was dead on his feet. He locked up his legs after the first hit with a 30-06 at 100 yards. After 2 more shots, and about 20 seconds that seemed like 20 minutes, he just toppled over burying one half of his rack right up to his skull in the mud. When we dressed him he had 3 holes in his heart. Deer, on the other hand, often just crumble when hit.
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Sounds about right ..... The first moose I shot with my 375 was a small bull broadside at about 80yds. He took two Accubonds in the lungs that neither passed through and never flinched. I should have stopped shooting after the first shot but put two more into him before he finally dropped.
I have never had trouble shooting moose where the shoulder blades meet inline with the spine, there is not a lot of meat at the top of the shoulder blades and the last time I checked there is no meat in the spine. I have dropped them on the spot, on numerous occasions. Using a 7RM or 338WM loaded with 160, 180 and 225 accubond's and 210 ttsx. This shot placement always stops them from running but usually does not kill with one shot. I'm not a fan of long range shots on game so I like to get as close as possible. I have sold both my 7 mags, I have sold one 338WM and use my current 338 for almost all my hunts. Moose aren't a spooky animal so why the need for a 500 yard shot? a guy can usually get within a 100 yards of a moose without being sneeky. If your sneeky or good at calling then your in bow range. I have found that elk are a little tougher at soaking up bullets compared to moose, but their bones still break and they still die if shot properly. Another vote for 338 or bigger to spread the collection overlap out.
- Location
- Rockland, ON
I once watched a bull take 4 shots to the front right shoulder from my partners 30-06. With a totally smashed shoulder it wheeled left and took off through the swamp like a freight train. As it crossed a creek its good front leg got completely stuck in the mud on the far bank. It was mortally wounded but that creek was the only thing that stopped it where it did. Otherwise we probably had a much longer search on our hands. Agree that its better to get closer when geography permits. We hunt over and around a lot of open lakes and rivers. There is often 200 - 500 yards of it between a watch and the opposite shoreline. Also agree that moose aren't especially spooky if approached by water. I've paddled up to within 20 yards of several cows, not so much with bulls. We can't shoot from the water here in ON and by the time we cross the water, beach and set for a shot they'll be gone. Creeping around the lake is often an impossible option. Calling in a bull, even in the rut, has not always been successful either. Often our best option is a longer shot over the open water. Making it has resulted in downed animals that we would not have taken any other way. The whole gang now uses magnums from 7mm, 300 Win to the Weatherby 30-378 mostly because of the open water where we hunt.
