Contract Rifles of Siam/Thialand: Mauser, Arisaka,Enfield

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bryan.14

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Hi Milsurp Gun Nutz,

I have some Old Thailand Contract rifles, a mauser 98 and a .30-06 Japanese Arisaka. The Arisaka is an awesome shooter, and the mauser is a model 98 style rifle, with dust cover. I have also seen a Lee Enfield No.1 MK3 and some other Arisaka's rifles. Some of Arisaka's have American features like, an Arisaka/cross M1 Carbine and my Arisaka in .30-06 has a M1 carbine style front sight.

Does anyone know more about these Contract Siamese/Thai issued Rifles?
Did they just mix and match WW2 surplus rifle parts?

Thanks in advance!
 
There were quite a few Arisakas modded for the Thai Gummint after WW2, these being to .30-'06 calibre. What doesn't appear to be in very many books are the contract Arisakas which were actually built for Thailand, back when it generally was called Siam.

These rifles chamber the 8x52R Siamese cartridge and LOOKED LIKE standard Type 38 Japanese rifles but, if you check them very closely against a true Japanese rifle, you will find that almost ZERO parts will interchange. Even the receiver extensions are different!

These rifles are marked with a Royal Siamese chakra on the receiver and have NO Japanese markings at all. Very few of these seem to have gotten out and this I can understand; the one I picked up is pretty bad, but the rust did come off and it will hit a paint-can at 245 yards, so I really don't have a lot to complain about for a $15 rifle which had a $7 trigger-lock installed! Thing is, they just look SO awful that no-one in their right mind would offer any more than that!

As to the Mausers, the vast majority seem to have been converted from the 8x52R to a cartridge which is supposed to be much better: .45-70. Problem is that this conversion became so popular that original rifles now are VERY hard to find.

I believe that the Siamese Arisakas and Mausers both date from 1922, the Siamese Smellies from 1920. The Smellies were BSA civilian contract rifles, .303" in calibre, and were new rifles (not surplus British rifles) although they seem to have used some over-run British-marked parts from the period of the Great War (just ended). As the purchase as semi-official in nature, likely this is to be expected. These rifles were used to arm the Wild Tiger Corps, a village militia scheme for local defence. The Smellies are distinguished by the smiling-tiger logo on the butt-socket and by the fact that they have 2 serial numbers: one in Siamese script, the other (hidden by the woodwork) in Western numerals. There were 10,000 rifles in the BSA contract.

Hope this helps.
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I have one of those BSA's. It is in very good condition compared to others I have seen pictures of. Non matching bolt, and bayonet ( very typical), but correct.
Bore looks good.
Interesting gun, and you can just feel the history when you hold it.
It also has a correct blue sling, and frog.
 
The Siamese Mauser was adopted in 1903, Type 46, and used the 8x50R Type 45 ctg. Most were converted in 1920s to use the 8x52R Type 66 ,1923, ctg.
A carbine version of the Mauser was also made.
These arms were made in Japan.
 
smellie said:
There were quite a few Arisakas modded for the Thai Gummint after WW2, these being to .30-'06 calibre. What doesn't appear to be in very many books are the contract Arisakas which were actually built for Thailand, back when it generally was called Siam.

These rifles chamber the 8x52R Siamese cartridge and LOOKED LIKE standard Type 38 Japanese rifles but, if you check them very closely against a true Japanese rifle, you will find that almost ZERO parts will interchange. Even the receiver extensions are different!

These rifles are marked with a Royal Siamese chakra on the receiver and have NO Japanese markings at all. Very few of these seem to have gotten out and this I can understand; the one I picked up is pretty bad, but the rust did come off and it will hit a paint-can at 245 yards, so I really don't have a lot to complain about for a $15 rifle which had a $7 trigger-lock installed! Thing is, they just look SO awful that no-one in their right mind would offer any more than that!

As to the Mausers, the vast majority seem to have been converted from the 8x52R to a cartridge which is supposed to be much better: .45-70. Problem is that this conversion became so popular that original rifles now are VERY hard to find.

I believe that the Siamese Arisakas and Mausers both date from 1922, the Siamese Smellies from 1920. The Smellies were BSA civilian contract rifles, .303" in calibre, and were new rifles (not surplus British rifles) although they seem to have used some over-run British-marked parts from the period of the Great War (just ended). As the purchase as semi-official in nature, likely this is to be expected. These rifles were used to arm the Wild Tiger Corps, a village militia scheme for local defence. The Smellies are distinguished by the smiling-tiger logo on the butt-socket and by the fact that they have 2 serial numbers: one in Siamese script, the other (hidden by the woodwork) in Western numerals. There were 10,000 rifles in the BSA contract.

Hope this helps.
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Click to expand...

Great Information!!,

But I think the Arisaka .30-06 has a Japanese Chrysanthamum on the reciever and a Type 38 rifle marking, like on my Japansese Arisaka Type 38 rifle. It's barrel has been shortend by 6 inches and has a M1 carbine type sight. Were some of these Arisaka's captured during WW2, because it has Japanese markings for some reason.

I can post pictures this weekend if anyone would like to see the rifles.

Thanks for the Help!!!
 
Last edited:
@ green: thank you! I's important to have CORRECT information; I was guessing.

BTW, the original Siamese Arisaka has writing around the chakra, part of the original marking, referring to "66". This should give us a date there. I don't know what the rest of it says, as Siamese was not taught in the high school here!

@OP: the .30-'06 Arisakas were made up from surrendered Japanese rifles AFTER World War 2, so Type 38 markings and Imperial chrysanthemums definitely would be in order. A friend has one of these and it is NICE.

Good find!
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Siam also adopted the 1895 Mannlicher straight pull rifle, which is why the 8x52Rmm cartridge is used in the Japanese made Mausers. There is a picture in an old issue National Geographic, from pre WW I, showing Siamese troops caring the 1895s in a coronation parade
 
@Ganderite: shouldn't be too hard to figure out which round it takes. The original 8x50R was the Astro-Hungarian cartridge, so you can make them up by using an 8mm Lebel die to push the shoulder back a bit on a FL resized 7.62x54R: it is the same draw.

For the later 8x52R the base is closer to the .45-70.

I do know that my rifle has to be 8x52R. I formed a box of ammo up from 7.62x54R and there is MEGA base expansion (I used a VERY mild load), far too much to be safe at Service pressures. Will be forming up another batch from some of this new .45-70 brass that's cluttering up the brass chest, see how they work.

I think just the fact of having something THIS damned rare AND having ammo for it, would be a worthy challenge and endeavour in itself....... just so you can say that YOU DID IT.

Good luck, friend.
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