converted antiques

vviking said:
Well said Mooncoon.

Is it not time?, .... for a directly worded sticky outlining the realities and responsibilities of antique ownership?.
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mooncoon said:
I am not sure how many people would actually read it. This same topic seems to come up every month or so.

cheers mooncoon
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And, we have seen the heat turned up to battle level foolishness between posters on past threads, too. ... Not good.

A strong sticky will never be a cure-all, however, if even just a few members do not reopen this particular can-o-worms .....
Perhaps two months could go by without attracting potentially negative attention.


Southlander said:
Well said Mooncoon


CGN should consider deleting these threads in the interest of the antique community.
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That would be arbitrary.;)
We've seen past threads locked for trolling, name calling, etc., infraction type behavior. As well they should have been, IMO.

The mods operate under the dictates of Admin., so them nuking a thread based on it's topic only .... is not likely to fall within a mods current mandate.(much as some may wish it were!:eek:)

mooncoon said:
the bottom line is that discretion is extremely important

cheers mooncoon
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Say it again .... and again.:bangHead:
 
ok>>>>>>>so I ask a innocent question regarding a perfectly legal theory, on a topic of interest to me and apparently others, concerning antiques and get flamed and lectured.

I see, so those of us who are new should not seek to learn as it may rock the boat.

So let us recap.........Shooting an antique off range is legal, owning an antique is legal, converting an antique to legal cal, is yup you guessed it legal but we should not talk about it.

Please forgive my ignorance.

Mooncoon, I really do appreciate the constructive advice, you strike me by your answers as a really decent person. Please delete this thread.
 
Hawking said:
So let us recap.........Shooting an antique off range is legal, owning an antique is legal, converting an antique to legal cal, is yup you guessed it legal but we should not talk about it.
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You got it buddy. Lol. Don't be discouraged, that's what these forums are about, everyone has an opinion.

You got your answer, and I do believe this thread serves a purpose to inform.

I respect the opinions shared on this thread. All the positions have merit.

I am a legal firearms owner, and will do what I want, within the boundaries of the law.

(the .17m2 idea was just that... an idea. Food for thought. I do not have nearly enough cash to back a project like that ;) )

Modifying antiques to shoot non-named modern ammo is not new. If it was something "they" cared deeply about, the NWEST/RCMP/CFC would have already shut it down. It's no big secret. And to add to one of the previous posts, I am certain that this is not nearly as widespread as people make it out to be.
 
Any criticism or flaming is not directed at asking for clarification of some legal point but rather reflects concern over attracting the potentially negative attention of the law to what the law probably perceives as a loophole that they would like to close. The issue of the strength of the gun to be converted is of much less concern, I would think.

Most importantly I think it is important to remember that our comments are open to all to read and I am sure that we (antique owners) are scrutinized at least from time to time. I think it is important to try to understand why the law is written as it is (presumes one knows the written law). For the most part I think that the law works on the presumption of what is the "common man or woman" capable of and I think in the case of antiques, the government presumption is that the common person is only knowledgeable enough to walk into a store and buy a box of factory shells. If factory ammunition is not available because the caliber is obsolete, the government mind appears to feel that the gun cannot be easily stolen and shot during a crime. That belief is not as foolish as it might first appear because I am under the impression that only a small number of modern gun owners handload their shells so that would imply that the number of owners / shooters who form or make their own obsolete shells for antique guns are indeed a tiny fraction of the 1 or 2 million gun owners in Canada. As long as we stick to wildcat cartridges or obsolete cartridges, we are not triggering any alarm bells in government minds.

cheers mooncoon
 
cuerno de chivo said:
Well said Southlander !

But imagine explaining this to LEO : You open carry (in a place where it is legal of course) a Mod 1873 French ordnance revolver....First he will freak out but you explain...fine!.. you show him the RCMP letter stating it is an antique and/or the fact sheet....Then he believes what he reads or place a call to check...fine! This LEO is doing his job....Oupsss! he sees that you are loading it with 44-40 Win. shells. He doesn't know that the only way to fire this gun is to make your own shells out of 44 mag or 44-40 Win. This Guy is not an expert and concludes that it fires a caliber that is listed as NOT being antique.:eek:
Same with the French 1892 and Swiss 1882 with ammo made with 32-20 :eek:
I always carry an original uncut case with me to show in case of.....:cool:
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He/she would be "expert" enough to know the difference between an 11.7x17 mm cartidge and a .44-40 (i.e. a 10.8x33.3mm) in the first place ?....:confused:

No offence to any LEO :redface: , but that'd be quite a mistake !....:wave:
 
Hawking said:
ok>>>>>>>so I ask a innocent question regarding a perfectly legal theory, on a topic of interest to me and apparently others, concerning antiques and get flamed and lectured.

I see, so those of us who are new should not seek to learn as it may rock the boat.

So let us recap.........Shooting an antique off range is legal, owning an antique is legal, converting an antique to legal cal, is yup you guessed it legal but we should not talk about it.

Please forgive my ignorance.

Mooncoon, I really do appreciate the constructive advice, you strike me by your answers as a really decent person. Please delete this thread.
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Hawking,

There is no offence intended here. Your question is legitimate. No one thinks you are ignorant. Many others have asked the same question(s) before you.(myself included)
We all started into antiques with many unknowns on our minds. I was patiently indulged by these good members, and I wish for you to be too. This forum is a goldmine of information, that you have now become a part of by posting here.

Inadvertently, you have touched on a soft spot.
Antique owners tend to be heavily invested, passionate. We can also be quite protective at times.

That is what you are seeing.

If this board's search function was not so pathetically useless, so many of our questions could have been answered from that resource.
 
cuerno de chivo said:
Well said Southlander !

But imagine explaining this to LEO : You open carry (in a place where it is legal of course) a Mod 1873 French ordnance revolver....First he will freak out but you explain...fine!.. you show him the RCMP letter stating it is an antique and/or the fact sheet....Then he believes what he reads or place a call to check...fine! This LEO is doing his job....Oupsss! he sees that you are loading it with 44-40 Win. shells. He doesn't know that the only way to fire this gun is to make your own shells out of 44 mag or 44-40 Win. This Guy is not an expert and concludes that it fires a caliber that is listed as NOT being antique.:eek:
Same with the French 1892 and Swiss 1882 with ammo made with 32-20 :eek:
I always carry an original uncut case with me to show in case of.....:cool:
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if your really worried about posibly using brass with a headstamp from the no go list .....

THEN DON'T ..... get some brass with no head stamp , or a head stamp that isn't on the no go list ...... or a custom headstamp ... i believe starline will custom make you brass with any headstamp you want ....

if a guy has a couple grand to spend on a antique revolver to pack in the bush , you also have the means to buy custom headstamped brass if you feel it will cause you grief .
 
In the scenario of the handgun in the bush but with a letter, the LEO would almost certainly confiscate the gun until he was able to confirm the authenticity of the information. You could then pick it up from the station or office in a few days time.

I have been involved twice with authorities and shown them paperwork. In both cases they did not believe what was on the paper. First time was with Canada Customs and a 1800 vintage flintlock pistol in pieces. They checked with a supervisor and let me bring it in only (in their words) because they felt it could not be made to fire. The second time was associated with the friend's injury and the local RCMP could not find the appropriate sections in their copy of the criminal code and left it up to the judgement of the officer who had seized the gun, when he returned to duty in several days. He returned and the gun was returned to the owner. The original seizure of the gun was reasonable and only reason for retention was the issue of registration of an antique flintlock handgun

cheers mooncoon
 
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