Converting 1873 to antique status possible?
- Thread starter Duncan71
- Start date
pointandshoot
CGN Regular
- Location
- richmond, bc
i'm not a lawyer, but i think you would be sol because of the "designed" part of this sentence.
A handgun manufactured before 1898 that is capable of discharging centre-fire cartridges, other than a handgun designed or adapted to discharge 32 Short Colt, 32 Long Colt, 32 Smith and Wesson, 32 Smith and Wesson Long, 32-20 Winchester, 38 Smith and Wesson, 38 Short Colt, 38 Long Colt, 38-40 Winchester, 44-40 Winchester, or 45 Colt cartridges.
the fact the gun was first designed to shoot 45colt puts it on the naughty list imho. however a webley mkI modified to shoot 45acp is ok because the "designed" calibre .455 webley and the "adapted" calibre 45acp are not on the naughty list.
A handgun manufactured before 1898 that is capable of discharging centre-fire cartridges, other than a handgun designed or adapted to discharge 32 Short Colt, 32 Long Colt, 32 Smith and Wesson, 32 Smith and Wesson Long, 32-20 Winchester, 38 Smith and Wesson, 38 Short Colt, 38 Long Colt, 38-40 Winchester, 44-40 Winchester, or 45 Colt cartridges.
the fact the gun was first designed to shoot 45colt puts it on the naughty list imho. however a webley mkI modified to shoot 45acp is ok because the "designed" calibre .455 webley and the "adapted" calibre 45acp are not on the naughty list.
yes and yes
burnt_servo
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- right in the middle of b.c.
are you familar with the list of cartridges that can not be antiques , regardless if the frame of the revolver is old enough ?
45 colt is on list ...... change out the cylinder and rechamber it to 45 schofield , or 455 webley and you are good to go .
( 45 colt will not fit in the cylinder now , so it is no longer " designed " to fire 45 colt ..... it is now designed to fire something else )
so back to your original post , if you swapped out the barrel and cylinder to 44 special , yes it could be reclassified as an antique .
in fact is could be any round that you could fit in the cylinder , as long as it is not on the no go list in the firearms act .
i do recall a member here having a bit of grief doing something similar ( i think it was 41 Colt who was trying to do this ) .
There have been a number of photos of SAAs so altered and reclassified posted here.
Personally, I am a little uneasy about the idea of permanently altering a valuable collectible firearm just to make an end run around current legislation. Maybe not quite as bad as the chopped classic antique and vintage shotguns so dear to the hearts of cowboy action bubbas, but these caliber conversions do destroy the originality of a collectible.
Personally, I am a little uneasy about the idea of permanently altering a valuable collectible firearm just to make an end run around current legislation. Maybe not quite as bad as the chopped classic antique and vintage shotguns so dear to the hearts of cowboy action bubbas, but these caliber conversions do destroy the originality of a collectible.
I have an 1892 DA Colt in .38spl that was converted to antique status. It took about two months of emails back & forth, with a long time of no communication where I thought they dropped the idea but I did get an antique letter in the end. Just be patient.
At least the cowboys tend to be cheap and usually seem to chop belgian guns :>)
cheers mooncoon
True but it depends how its done there no chopping in alot of cases take a 45 colt and get a 45 acp cylinder for it or 45 schofield and shes now antique.
Keep the orignal cylinder and your gun can be put back into its orignal caliber but would need to be Registered again.
The guns that get both the barrel and cylinder changed can also be put back the way they were easy enough if the old parts are kept but again they must be re registered.
I know what you meen tho alot you see are changed old parts long gone ect which is kinda bad as there not makeing anymore frist gen SAA Colts.
Also i have heard horor stories about guys trying to get a barrel outa a +130 year old gun when things are screwed together that long in alot of cases getting them apart can be a nightmare often wrecking or marking up the orignal barrel twisting the iron frame in the process.
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dingus - I do not know if the concept of "constructive possession" would apply.
If a person has, say, all the parts for a silencer, but unassembled, he can be prosecuted. If a person has all the parts of a restricted firearm, barrel and cylinder separate from the receiver, could this be an offence? I don't know. But it is issue that should be considered.
There are two classes of antique firearms, prescribed and deemed. One class - the muzzleoaders,are antique under the law. The other class are defined as antique by regulation. The former needs legislation to change, the latter can be changed by regulation. I am very concerned that a gov't could decide that it does not like the idea of antique pistols being carried and shot by unlicenced individuals, anywhere a non-restricted firearm can be used, and change the regulations. Could be done easily. These altered pistols would instantly become restricted, and would be of greatly reduced value as collectibles, having been altered.
If a person has, say, all the parts for a silencer, but unassembled, he can be prosecuted. If a person has all the parts of a restricted firearm, barrel and cylinder separate from the receiver, could this be an offence? I don't know. But it is issue that should be considered.
There are two classes of antique firearms, prescribed and deemed. One class - the muzzleoaders,are antique under the law. The other class are defined as antique by regulation. The former needs legislation to change, the latter can be changed by regulation. I am very concerned that a gov't could decide that it does not like the idea of antique pistols being carried and shot by unlicenced individuals, anywhere a non-restricted firearm can be used, and change the regulations. Could be done easily. These altered pistols would instantly become restricted, and would be of greatly reduced value as collectibles, having been altered.
Contructive possesion, wow! One can really get a headache thinking about this too much, there are perhaps better analogies that may apply. Ones that have been discussed ad nauseum on this site, such as "adding" pistol grip stocks that change the OAL of a shotgun or changing to a longer magazine tube for a shotgun that alows increased capacity in both the semi auto and pump shotgun variants, if installed in the semi possesion of "gun" becomes illegal but not in the pump. These are items by themselves are parts that are not regulated and can easily be bought openly in any Cabelas by my 10 year old child. They only become "illegal" if they find themselves on the actual offending firearm and when the wrong constellation of events occur.
Could you be prosecuted for having these parts, sure why not, you can be charged and prosecuted for just about anything that seems semi reasonable to a crown attorney. The real question is - are they likely to convict?
Was there a conviction? As I mentioned before charges and prosecution under the right circumstances can occur to anyone for just about anything, does it make it right or should I think of every gun part in my possesion as worrisome, I don't think so, just play safe kids
vagrantviking
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Southern Alberta
I'm surprised that converstion is allowable. Won't the 38 Spl still chamber 38 S&W which is on the no-go list?
This is an interesting idea that we have not seen surface.
The pending firearms legislation going through the house right now has a stipulation that the minister (their experts/RCMP) must review the "classification" of all firearms every 2 years. Not much trouble to slip a new list of antiques in there at some point in the future. I try to stay away from the tinfoil hat but one can see the possibilities. Rest assured though there will always be a wild cat not on the list.lol
My post may have simplified what it takes to change the barrel and cylinder they must be head spaced the correct bushing must be installed the right cylinder gap set up ect bolt and hand timed gunsmith work in most cases.
so its not simple to put it all back im just saying a gun that had collectable value "may" have its orignal parts put back into the frame if a person wanted to if the parts were not lost.
Again i state according to the regulations if you put the gun back into a NO Caliber it must be re registered as it was before according to the laws of the land.
I wouldnt want to have a bunch of short barrels under 4 inchs rolling around in a drawer but cylinders are just gun parts that need fitting to go into any gun and are not ilegal to have.
As Apu says Play safe kids.
so its not simple to put it all back im just saying a gun that had collectable value "may" have its orignal parts put back into the frame if a person wanted to if the parts were not lost.
Again i state according to the regulations if you put the gun back into a NO Caliber it must be re registered as it was before according to the laws of the land.
I wouldnt want to have a bunch of short barrels under 4 inchs rolling around in a drawer but cylinders are just gun parts that need fitting to go into any gun and are not ilegal to have.
As Apu says Play safe kids.
